[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 116, Issue 27

[Katherine Peil]

Hi Karl,
I too have hoped for the pleasing feedback that suggests you (or anyone) has understood my offerings – my own lamentations that emotional sentience is missing from most perspectives. But it does indeed take significant interest and investment to interpret and communicate across disciplines, which is why I remain hopeful that grounding my own offerings in direct human experience will bear fruit.

But I have long honored your generous and patient communications with respectful acts of due diligence to begin grokking your framework (reading your papers, conducting book re-sortings etc.)  And today, after reading your paper Liaisons Among Symbols, I must say “sold”!  I not only see many direct translations – and enhancements - to my Tao Story, but also key tendrils for colleagues that are also interested in quantum contextuality, basal intelligence, origins of information, agency, sentience and/or the role of harmonic resonance. I plan to share it widely and hope that is OK by you.

As for the feedback you await, I understand much better about emergent cycles and their role in part and whole relationships than I did by simply by doing the book sorting exercise without much context. (It might be helpful if you were to create a little You-tube video of you conducting and explaining the book sorting exercise for the Learned Friends, as an entre for this spectacular paper.) As for your thing-a-majig metaphor, I once trotted out the idea of an “I-Wiz” – a new fandangled piece of Apple technology that could offer optimal, personalized, in-the-moment behavioral guidance toward flourishing health, happiness and relational success. (Everything that nature has gifted us with the emotional system!) So whether this resonates with you or not, I see your invention as a unique and central missing component of the “machinery” and a step toward understanding the required “agent in the machine”, a framework that puts algorithmic computation and “information” into all the right self-regulatory context.

So the light is on in Kate’s room. I do confess to a bit of apophenia and may be guilty of over-reaching, but I see tremendous promise in how your work can help fill some conspicuous theoretical gaps. I hope to do it justice by building it into my Tao story, but I’m afraid it does relate to the quantum realm via creative transitions between micro and macro domains. Indeed, I just finished reading Federico Faggin’s Irreducible, wherein he postulates a common “language” (syntax) of symbols between quantum and classical domains, which I highly recommend. But – fair warning – he takes your assertion that “the mental construct does exist in nature” to its logical end and might be considered extreme, but his framework cleanly holds both of ours. Way too much more to say, but truly, thank you.
With gratitude and evermore admiration,
Kate Kauffman









On 11/25/24, 2:54 AM, "Fis" <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> wrote: Katherine Peil Kauffman

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Emotional sentience, Hemispheric Lateralization and
      Quantum Physics ~ oh my! (Karl Javorszky)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2024 10:53:23 +0100
From: Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky at gmail.com>
To: Katherine Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com>, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Emotional sentience, Hemispheric Lateralization and
        Quantum Physics ~ oh my!
Message-ID:
        <CA+nf4CVmQHROiezvpu3EndF0gkwtFeiYdmNGiB==UBnGFPJEwQ at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

Dear Kate,



thank you for reading the text of my lamentations about the inflexibility
of the vocabulary (lexicon) to describe the proceedings one observes in
biology. It will be a day of deep satisfaction for both of us, the day when
you start giving feedback that you have understood the subject of the
lamentations, and the sales pitch that comes after the lamentation.

My text goes:

?look at poor me, I cannot construct, by the words that I have learnt using
that grammar what I have learnt, a picture to describe that what I see!?

The important sales drive comes after that:

?look here, (at proud me), this is what I have found. These here are 46.260
interconnectors among realizations of amount, time, distance,
predictability, cohesion, conservativism, opportunism, importance and
irrelevance.?. Here the salesman points to the heap of cycles that are a
protocol of every possible amount coming to every possible place ? as long
as the system is ordered. Rotating ( ~ colloquial expression for subjecting
the etalon collection to 72 * 71 resorts, pretending that these are all but
maybe a few of the possible reorderings of the arguments of * a+ b = c, *below
the Eddington maximum) the logical expression *a+b=c *brings forth matches
between what is where and when and how predictably.

The customer will not be hooked by the hope that he may learn to use a
gadget that predicts when is where what how certainly, because gadgets are
nothing but gadgets and there are already too many of those. (Unless the
customer is interested in the mechanics of the ultimate Rubik?s cube
marrying the Mother of All Sudokus and begetting a
geometro-synchro-algometro gadget, for the pleasure of having a nice
Tinguely machine, constructed of natural numbers, next to his alarm clock.)

The customer needs an argument to see that he indeed does need the gadget.
One enters a sales seductive pitch, saying: ?Say, don?t you check all the
day whether what you produce is fit for consumption by comparing it to some
descendants from the Tree of Natural Numbers?? Customer works in Science,
so what he does all day is to check whether his calculations of the day
pass through the general grammar control of being self-referentially true.
Whatever parts of whichever applied technique the customer wants to check
for feasibility, he will compute the idea. If the computations behind his
ideas yield that it is possible that the ideas are related in such a
fashion, then the customer is allowed to set an OK check, that he has
worked correctly. At the end of the day, be these bridges built, machines
assembled, meals cooked, wounds healed, there will be a cross-referencing
of key descriptors that comes to a result, which result is the basis for
that evening?s feeling well in respect of having done the day?s work. We do
a cross-referencing as humans as we ascertain ourselves of the correctness
of our work. In the case of STEM work, and the customer is on the STEM
side, the cross-referencing will most probably also have a form that has a
numeric expression. The sales pitch underlines that the plausibility result
of a piece of accounting done is that the two sides match, irrespective of
the business.

If you have not lost the customer at this point, you will be able to
present him the unique sales proposal. (There is so far nothing to alienate
the customer. He is a STEM mensh and he adds up his plans and checks if,
whether and how far his plans agree to the numbers that are sure to be
kosher.)

Here you might risk a fraternization by striking a personal note. Find
common memories of student days and say, why, would you not have wished to
have a catalog of correct answers for all the tests? If he nods, you almost
got the sale.

Repeat slowly with him that he checks the reality (reasonableness,
grammatical correctness, truth, etc.) of any mental product he produces by
referring to children, grandchildren, further descendants of the root of
all truths, *a+b=c. *That statement is at the root of the Tree of Natural
Numbers.

Now you offer him a gadget which delivers all the correct answers to all
questions he can ever pose in the context of a whole that is made up of
diverse parts, that can be differently similar and diverse among each other
and count differently many. (Mention the Eddington limit and that we can
only regard systems that are ordered. Biology is ordered to the maximum
extent possible, and trees do not grow to the sky, so the requirement of a
closed collection is also maintained.)

You give the customer a Fortune?s sack full of relations that are much
better than the quantum concept he uses today. Our basic units are not
man-made but are a gift of Nature. Anything that is assembled is included
in the possibilities of fitting *j* pieces of the Cycles Library together.

As an additional extra bonus, the customer can have the numeric values of
the relations of any two of the basic pieces (of which there are in our
version 46.260) delivered together with the logical values of which variant
of the general change are these connection values the most valid/acute. The
customer does not have to invent ? based on observations ? new or improved
interconnectors between his concepts, because the natural numbers have
given us the keys for the interconnections that can be realized, actually,
numerically be the case in physical reality. The keys are in the fine print
of the user?s manual about how to use natural numbers. One creates all
cycles by rotating the assembly and then for each reorder redistributes the
right side of *a+b=c *among the participants symbolized by *a, b*, by
building pairs of *a, b *and crediting the cycle with that part of *c *that
was moved by the cycle. Within cycles, one breaks down the amount the cycle
has been credited with, to each individual member of the cycle, as an
average value (one may want to redistribute based on headcount of members
or on distance run by the cycle). This is a measurement unit that connects
amounts, their differences and similarities, distances and discrete units
(member head count). Not only is this unit more versatile than the current
quantum concept, but it is made by Nature and not by honorable humans
Helmholtz and Planck.

The extra bonus are the *liaison values *that connect parts that belong
together. By the technique outlined above, one arrives at values of the
assembly that are in sum *2(a+b). *The addition happens at an inner level
that is not strikingly obvious at first.

To make the semantic (romantic) relations obvious that bring several
members of an assembly into lien type bondage relations, the customer has
only to take 12 of his books and reorder them on his table from
author-title into title-author and retour. The insight is located exactly
near the *pons *between and below the two hemispheres. The fundamentals of
the insight deal with brain regions that the customer has not trained in a
formal educative context since early childhood. As Kate charmingly writes,
it is pleasurable for her to see me engaged in my deep hobby of sorting and
ordering. It is encouraging for me that Kate registers what the song and
dance at this festival is about. It is with a mixed pleasure that I see a
group in which someone who raves about sorting counts as a charming
outsider. This is progress insofar as the group does not decide that
sorting is blasphemous. The group understands that sorting is something
that can be done, and is obviously done, by at least one, but to what end
and why and who benefits of this, is in the eyes of the group as of yet not
really clear.

Well, we are in a group that deals with information theory as applied to
biology. Of the two fields where this can be studied in an abstract form,
memory and genetic, we traditionally deal with genetic, as the labor people
give us facts, while the memory people give only hypotheses. So, it is
genetic. The DNA is a sequence. If one wants to understand sequences one
cannot avoid sorting and ordering.

The real question is how on Earth in a group that tries to understand
information theory as applied in biology, someone who cries *sequences! *where
others cry *wolf!* can be an outlier. Everyone should be speaking about
sequences and sorting in the present excellent assembly of Learned Friends.



To cut it short:

The 46.260 elementary interconnectors are that collection which people
refer to as they use the word ?quantum?.

To give an example: There are some among the 46.260 that are extremely
useful. It is a numeric pattern in reorder* 17-(a+b), a+b** ? 3b-2a,
3a-2b *that
will serve as a *metronome* cycle, being 129 members long, together with
its inside-outside half-twin *a+b, 17-(a+b)** ? 3b-2a, 3a-2b *that will
serve as the *folding *cycle, being 128 members long. The labor people need
to do less experiments if we tell them that this is what they should look
for.

The invention is to assemble a parallel to the perspective we traditionally
use to look at the world. The duality is everywhere. We shall deal with the
translation between how many, how diverse, how similar (the Mariju?n
constants) later. Presently, we discuss a much simpler realization of the
basic duality, namely that what we count in units of distance (each of the
units is equal) vs. what we call amount, here at first used as an
identifying symbol, giving the element its place among its peers. To the
distance facts (in uniform units) come the logical flags (of which reorder
the interconnector is by natural descendance a part of), and now, as an
extra bonus the material summands (the lien values that connect two
members). And, as an ultra extra bonus, the members of the interconnectors
are sequentially numbered among each other, allowing manifold offset
variants of the same interconnectors being at work.

As we sort, we assign place attributes to elements. Among the place
attributes are also logical attributes and material values. We know that
the cookbook is among the first in author-title but among the last in
title-author. This variant (author / title) of order connects several of
the books into distinct, individual cycles. If we had year-of-publication
and no-of-pages as order descriptors too, the cookbook could have come to
wildly different places. There are variants of logical order descriptors
and each of them imposes its own pairs of amount / place expectations. (All
that within a closed, ordered assembly, like biology.)



To close, a sales point that may interest the customer: tell him he can be
famous. Tell the customer that the *logical archetypes *are not catalogized
yet. It is like fishing in a bathtub. He will be able to describe a
chemical element by naming the specific of the clusters/bundles of cycles
that are unavoidably created by the very fact of rotating *2(a+b). *Sort,
order and filter the 46.260. Find those that can and that can not coexist.
Build types. The archetypes are those patterns that appear and remain
bumped together as the assembly is undergoing perpetual changes. There can
be no more than 129 of such. Filter out the most resilient.

PS: Zaragoza server discourages pictures in these letters. To see how two
different cycles are used to define One Unit of Information, please see the
illustration in

(PDF) Liaisons Among Symbols
<https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fwww.researchgate.net%2Fpublication%2F385499143_Liaisons_Among_Symbols__%3B!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Sj1nm_SHqWdYJ8aUNgurup7XDlU-bXlULwsdN82LVA3lQykDVbgsc9j9oKJTbrS1hprCu9NrtkqrEFoW-2gLJjeQa4E%24&data=05%7C02%7C%7C089bd5388a964b04d02908dd0d372351%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638681252652687310%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJFbXB0eU1hcGkiOnRydWUsIlYiOiIwLjAuMDAwMCIsIlAiOiJXaW4zMiIsIkFOIjoiTWFpbCIsIldUIjoyfQ%3D%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=WMEF3NP%2FJQZGS%2FGZOD0DKXKlRz92JYlWA3dXprz3j1g%3D&reserved=0 >

Thanks again for your interest.

Karl

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