[Fis] Emotional information -emotions are not binary

Thu Nov 21 12:05:14 CET 2024

Dear Kate, Thomas and Fis,

Somehow the thread missed the points you Kate were reacting to. So here 
are the previous comments you reacted to:

I am hoping that Thomas will go a bit deeper in explaining his ideas on 
QM, consciousness and emotions and respond to Kate.

My interest is in the relationships between state information about the 
world, intentions and emotions. This links communication and cooperation 
theory with social processes.  It is also relevant to integrating social 
intelligence into AI. I am working on a short article on that and will 
share it when it is a bit more mature.

A return hug to you Kate,

Eric

Dear Everyone,
as Eric wrote:
“Emotions are involved in the construction of what is perceived and 
thought to be possible.”

 From my point of view, this shows how important the “physics of 
possibilities”, namely quantum theory, is for an understanding of mental 
processes in general.

The quantization of a bit means that all intermediate stages are 
possible between the two possible measurement results “yes” and “no” ( 
two-dimensional Hilbert space).

The abundance of possibilities that arise is the precise essence of the 
coupling of psyche and body in the case of emotions.
(Possible literature on this, unfortunately so far only in German:
Thomas Görnitz, Brigitte Görnitz (2016) Von der Quantenphysik zum 
Bewusstsein/Kosmos, Geist und Materie, Heidelberg, Springer,
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.springer.com/de/book/9783662490815__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4rjc-jzeA$Thomas 
Görnitz: Quantentheorie verstehen/Grundlegende Vorstellungen und 
Begriffe, (2. Ed. 2024) Hanser, München,
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hanser-fachbuch.de/fachbuch/artikel/9783446480261__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4p-y_CLog$ 
)

In contrast to the AI that currently exists, the self-stabilizing 
information processing in all living organisms is not electronic, but 
chemical. “Chemical” primarily means “purely quantum physical”.

The chemical basis means that the processing of any property that can be 
interpreted by a living organism as meaningful information is always 
associated with a change in its material structure: every thought 
changes the brain.

Best wishes
Thomas

Quoting Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org>:

Dear Kate,

A bit late, but some brief reactions.

Most emotions don't seem to be binary. They drive us and influence our 
perception, thought, intentions and execution of our strategies. They 
even cover what we think is our capacity to act in world. Emotions are 
much more than run or attack.  There are so many subtle mixtures of love 
and hate, of liking and not liking, of trepidation and courage.

Emotions are involved in the construction of what is perceived and 
thought to be possible.

-Eric

On 11/7/24 11:02 PM, Katherine Peil wrote:

On 11/20/24 7:24 PM, Katherine Peil wrote:
>
> Dear Thomas, Eric & All,
>
> Indeed Thomas, quantum biology is very real, particularly as it 
> concerns the nature of emotion. (I offered a Tao story that described 
> “the engine of creativity” as a cyclic process between quantum and 
> classical domains with a subjective participant at the interface 
> between the two realms – a bit like Bohm or Whitehead, but 
> specifically rooted in Stuart Kauffman’s “poised realm” interpretation 
> of QM. In this Tao story, optimal going with the flow of The Tao is 
> attained via decisions that attain long-term balance between myriad 
> complementary opposites – the deepest of which are part of the causal 
> machinery itself, rooted in quantum complementarity.)
>
> First, let me say that emotion is an older and more primary process 
> than “cognition” via neural nets. It is a fully embodied interoceptive 
> sensory system, and serves the function of “self-regulation” – it 
> delivers “self-relevant” information and moves living systems to 
> action. This is evident in the sensory-motor control chemistry of the 
> bacterium, but given Mike Levin’s discovery of an entire layer of 
> bioelectric signaling, it goes deeper still.
>
>
> In our earlier discussion, I suggested that electromagnetism was a 
> deeper source of “sensory stimulus” leading to some of the binary 
> features of emotional qualia. But that there are both analog and 
> digital aspects of this stimulus in terms of membrane potential, 
> polarization and the computations undergirding  and involving  
> emotional qualia – which I have suggested serves delivers into 
> consciousness a course-graining of embodied cell signaling involved in 
> genetic, epigenetic and immune regulation. This aspect of emotion is 
> binary. It is some feeling akin to pain or pleasure, and delivers an 
> approach or avoidant action impulse. But – and this is key -  it is 
> not limited to the EITHER~OR logic of the classical domain, but also 
> carries the more primary BOTH~AND logic of the quantum realm.
>
> For like Eric suggests, human emotions are now very complex, and 
> completely intertwined with cognition proper (cultural schemata, 
> linguistic thoughts that lead to other thoughts, neither specifically 
> about “the self” nor motivational). Indeed, there are now three layers 
> of self-regulatory information encoded in our complex human emotions, 
> but one cannot decode it without understanding the first level and its 
> deeper biological function as self-regulatory feedback signals..
>
>
> The first step in understanding one’s emotional system is to be aware 
> that cognition and emotion are two separate but interacting streams of 
> information. This is accomplished by understanding its BINARY nature 
> of emotional qualia and the semantic information it carries. For 
> example, any thought that has affective valence offers informative 
> self-regulatory guidance via a clear yes~no message in pleasure or 
> pain and both its EITHER~OR and BOTH~AND logic. (These are the 
> “positive” and “negative” categories of emotion, which work together 
> to subserve the criteria for natural selection: They say YES to both 
> creative /self-development/ and to stable /self-preservation/, 
> respectively; as the dual self-regulatory imperatives that must be 
> balanced over time. The “self-identity” that is mediated, also has a 
> BINARY structure, both a part and a whole – with both 
> autonomous~collective aspects equally important, mediated by negative 
> and positive feelings respectively. (Our polarized American politics 
> demonstrates this along with the power of emotional manipulation.)
>
> Thank you both for keeping this discussion alive. I really like 
> Federcio Faggin’s concept of “live information” as it can open 
> liberating new doors. But when it comes to emotion, we have not begun 
> to appreciate the wisdom the embodiment has to offer.
>
> Oh, and Thomas, if that German work is anywhere in English, please let 
> me know.
>
> Hugs all around,
>
> Kate Kauffman
>
>
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-- 
/Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QFHV785p3-vPUm1ZMrCU2FIZE2sX2oeWZZUKO2pZwAD-SahoB3DTgv9MxatgO8GwnYtP_tkE1-LblbY2q0aR158$ 

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