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<p>Dear Kate, Thomas and Fis,</p>
<p>Somehow the thread missed the points you Kate were reacting to.
So here are the previous comments you reacted to:</p>
<p>I am hoping that Thomas will go a bit deeper in explaining his
ideas on QM, consciousness and emotions and respond to Kate.</p>
<p>My interest is in the relationships between state information
about the world, intentions and emotions. This links communication
and cooperation theory with social processes. It is also relevant
to integrating social intelligence into AI. I am working on a
short article on that and will share it when it is a bit more
mature. <br>
</p>
<p>A return hug to you Kate,</p>
<p>Eric<br>
</p>
<p>Dear Everyone,
<br>
as Eric wrote:
<br>
“Emotions are involved in the construction of what is perceived
and thought to be possible.”
<br>
<br>
From my point of view, this shows how important the “physics of
possibilities”, namely quantum theory, is for an understanding of
mental processes in general.
<br>
<br>
The quantization of a bit means that all intermediate stages are
possible between the two possible measurement results “yes” and
“no” ( two-dimensional Hilbert space).
<br>
<br>
The abundance of possibilities that arise is the precise essence
of the coupling of psyche and body in the case of emotions.
<br>
(Possible literature on this, unfortunately so far only in German:
<br>
Thomas Görnitz, Brigitte Görnitz (2016) Von der Quantenphysik zum
Bewusstsein/Kosmos, Geist und Materie, Heidelberg, Springer,
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.springer.com/de/book/9783662490815__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4rjc-jzeA$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.springer.com/de/book/9783662490815__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4rjc-jzeA$</a>Thomas
Görnitz: Quantentheorie verstehen/Grundlegende Vorstellungen und
Begriffe, (2. Ed. 2024) Hanser, München,
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext"
href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hanser-fachbuch.de/fachbuch/artikel/9783446480261__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4p-y_CLog$">https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hanser-fachbuch.de/fachbuch/artikel/9783446480261__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XUku6GUw-2Jt5xqaYi_xpi9JIZIwOqI_n703EIPUtlG0h_CjOKVUDj1dZFzqp3h9yTbhTo-oNjOy1L6K-fMDm4p-y_CLog$</a>
)
<br>
<br>
In contrast to the AI that currently exists, the self-stabilizing
information processing in all living organisms is not electronic,
but chemical. “Chemical” primarily means “purely quantum
physical”.
<br>
<br>
The chemical basis means that the processing of any property that
can be interpreted by a living organism as meaningful information
is always associated with a change in its material structure:
every thought changes the brain.
<br>
<br>
Best wishes
<br>
Thomas
<br>
<br>
<br>
Quoting Eric Werner <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E"
href="mailto:eric.werner@oarf.org"><eric.werner@oarf.org></a>:
<br>
<br>
Dear Kate,
<br>
<br>
A bit late, but some brief reactions.
<br>
<br>
Most emotions don't seem to be binary. They drive us and influence
our perception, thought, intentions and execution of our
strategies. They even cover what we think is our capacity to act
in world. Emotions are much more than run or attack. There are so
many subtle mixtures of love and hate, of liking and not liking,
of trepidation and courage.
<br>
<br>
Emotions are involved in the construction of what is perceived and
thought to be possible.
<br>
<br>
-Eric
<br>
<br>
On 11/7/24 11:02 PM, Katherine Peil wrote:
<br>
</p>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/20/24 7:24 PM, Katherine Peil
wrote:<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite"
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<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Dear Thomas,
Eric & All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Indeed Thomas,
quantum biology is very real, particularly as it concerns
the nature of emotion. (I offered a Tao story that described
“the engine of creativity” as a cyclic process between
quantum and classical domains with a subjective participant
at the interface between the two realms – a bit like Bohm or
Whitehead, but specifically rooted in Stuart Kauffman’s
“poised realm” interpretation of QM. In this Tao story,
optimal going with the flow of The Tao is attained via
decisions that attain long-term balance between myriad
complementary opposites – the deepest of which are part of
the causal machinery itself, rooted in quantum
complementarity.)<br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">First, let me
say that emotion is an older and more primary process than
“cognition” via neural nets. It is a fully embodied
interoceptive sensory system, and serves the function of
“self-regulation” – it delivers “self-relevant” information
and moves living systems to action. This is evident in the
sensory-motor control chemistry of the bacterium, but given
Mike Levin’s discovery of an entire layer of bioelectric
signaling, it goes deeper still.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><br>
In our earlier discussion, I suggested that electromagnetism
was a deeper source of “sensory stimulus” leading to some of
the binary features of emotional qualia. But that there are
both analog and digital aspects of this stimulus in terms of
membrane potential, polarization and the computations
undergirding and involving emotional qualia – which I have
suggested serves delivers into consciousness a
course-graining of embodied cell signaling involved in
genetic, epigenetic and immune regulation. This aspect of
emotion is binary. It is some feeling akin to pain or
pleasure, and delivers an approach or avoidant action
impulse. But – and this is key - it is not limited to the
EITHER~OR logic of the classical domain, but also carries
the more primary BOTH~AND logic of the quantum realm.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">For like Eric
suggests, human emotions are now very complex, and
completely intertwined with cognition proper (cultural
schemata, linguistic thoughts that lead to other thoughts,
neither specifically about “the self” nor motivational).
Indeed, there are now three layers of self-regulatory
information encoded in our complex human emotions, but one
cannot decode it without understanding the first level and
its deeper biological function as self-regulatory feedback
signals..<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><br>
The first step in understanding one’s emotional system is to
be aware that cognition and emotion are two separate but
interacting streams of information. This is accomplished by
understanding its BINARY nature of emotional qualia and the
semantic information it carries. For example, any thought
that has affective valence offers informative
self-regulatory guidance via a clear yes~no message in
pleasure or pain and both its EITHER~OR and BOTH~AND logic.
(These are the “positive” and “negative” categories of
emotion, which work together to subserve the criteria for
natural selection: They say YES to both creative
<i>self-development</i> and to stable <i>self-preservation</i>,
respectively; as the dual self-regulatory imperatives that
must be balanced over time. The “self-identity” that is
mediated, also has a BINARY structure, both a part and a
whole – with both autonomous~collective aspects equally
important, mediated by negative and positive feelings
respectively. (Our polarized American politics demonstrates
this along with the power of emotional manipulation.)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Thank you both
for keeping this discussion alive. I really like Federcio
Faggin’s concept of “live information” as it can open
liberating new doors. But when it comes to emotion, we have
not begun to appreciate the wisdom the embodiment has to
offer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Oh, and Thomas,
if that German work is anywhere in English, please let me
know.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Hugs all around,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book"">Kate Kauffman<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-family:"Avenir Book""><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
</div>
<br>
<fieldset class="moz-mime-attachment-header"></fieldset>
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</blockquote>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<i>
Dr. Eric Werner, FLS <br>
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation <br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QFHV785p3-vPUm1ZMrCU2FIZE2sX2oeWZZUKO2pZwAD-SahoB3DTgv9MxatgO8GwnYtP_tkE1-LblbY2q0aR158$">https://oarf.org</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
</i></div>
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