[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 116, Issue 8 Emotions are not binary

joe.brenner at bluewin.ch joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
Tue Nov 19 10:54:33 CET 2024 

Dear Eric,
 
I appreciate this simple but correct statement. If indeed there are such non-binary "things" in operation, they follow their own rules and logic. These do not  preclude the existence of binary phenomena and their logics- to so claim would be idiotic. The excursion into Oriental thought, however, is not the academic excercise as it might appear from Peter's comment. It (the excursion) us for me a necessary part of restoring the inclusion into standard Western reasoning of ternary positions (middles and change), at all levels of reality. Information - as process outside the machine -is no more binary than emotions are. 
 
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph

> Le 19.11.2024 09:49 CET, Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org> a écrit :
>  
>  
> 
> Dear Kate,
> 
> A bit late, but some brief reactions.
> 
> Most emotions don't seem to be binary. They drive us and influence our perception, thought, intentions and execution of our strategies. They even cover what we think is our capacity to act in world. Emotions are much more than run or attack.  There are so many subtle mixtures of love and hate, of liking and not liking, of trepidation and courage. 
> 
> Emotions are involved in the construction of what is perceived and thought to be possible. 
> 
> -Eric
> 
> On 11/7/24 11:02 PM, Katherine Peil wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Hi Peter,
> > 
> > I’ve only been able to pop in occasionally, but I find your thoughts on feedback to be highly relevant to many of the big open questions. Not only “information” but agency, cognition, creativity and the structure of “identity” itself (something that our best hard science theory does not address.)
> > 
> > 
> > At the beginning of the year, I led a discussion herein where I suggested that the emotional system was central to our “self-regulatory” hardware (genetic, epigenetic and immune regulation). In this view, binary feelings (pleasurable or painful, eustress or distress) serve as cybernetic feedback signals – informative software -  that originate in the non-equilibrium dynamics of complex adaptive systems (those that must constantly exchange energy and resources with their local environment in order to exist). I cited a four step cybernetic control loop instantiated by a coupling between bottom up positive (amplifying) feedback and top-down negative (homeostatic) feedback that works like this: 1) An ongoing comparison is made between internal and external environments; 2) A signal is sent when self-relevant mismatches occur; which 3) triggers a coupled self-correcting response, which is then 4)  fed back as a memory into the next cycle “comparison”. (AI uses a similar arrangement for deep neural learning networks, by comparing two probability distributions that compare internal requirements and external circumstances, modelling mismatches as free energy – “surprises” to the system - wherein learning occurs the via the goal of reducing free energy.)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > But as living systems, we have direct experience of a binary feedback signal as emotional sensory qualia – self-regulatory surprises that come in feel-good or feel-bad categories and are coupled to approach or avoidant self-correcting behavioral responses. I call these binary qualia the fundamental semantic information bit, for their binary categories drive each step in the loop and set the stage for all Pavlovian learning.
> > 
> > This loop, and its subjective binary hedonic driver, is central to the operational, organizational and informational closure of complex self-organizing and autopoietic systems, and it is central to the ongoing construction of the enactive “mind”. It enables an identity structure that behaves as a dance of both parts and wholes, an autonomous yet collective agent, both determined yet with minor participation, in ways that mediate both being and becoming. And so much more…
> > 
> > 
> > Sorry for the quick core dump, but I thought I’d pop in to applaud Peter’s inquiry and say hi to you all!
> > 
> > Katherine Kauffman
> > 
> > (Kung Fu Kate)
> > 
> >  
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es on behalf of fis-request at listas.unizar.es mailto:fis-request at listas.unizar.es <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> mailto:fis-request at listas.unizar.es
> > Date: Wednesday, November 6, 2024 at 7:40 PM
> > To: fis at listas.unizar.es mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es> mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es
> > Subject: Fis Digest, Vol 116, Issue 8
> > 
> > Send Fis mailing list submissions to
> >         fis at listas.unizar.es mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es
> > 
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >         https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flistas.unizar.es%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ffis&data=05%7C02%7C%7Cfe1ea6d93c044ca80dd108dcfed58d67%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638665440370162867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=Zlxzynyz%2BuJHg2dH%2BORlv3u6G6qMO8weOGl6YGA7p%2BU%3D&reserved=0 http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >         fis-request at listas.unizar.es mailto:fis-request at listas.unizar.es
> > 
> > You can reach the person managing the list at
> >         fis-owner at listas.unizar.es mailto:fis-owner at listas.unizar.es
> > 
> > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> > than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
> > 
> > 
> > Today's Topics:
> > 
> >    1. Re: Fwd: Re: New Discussion Session--Complexity & feedback
> >       (Peter Erdi)
> > 
> > 
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2024 02:39:45 +0000
> > From: Peter Erdi <Peter.Erdi at kzoo.edu> mailto:Peter.Erdi at kzoo.edu
> > To: Pedro C. Mariju?n <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com> mailto:pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com,
> >         "fis at listas.unizar.es" mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es> mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es
> > Subject: Re: [Fis] Fwd: Re: New Discussion Session--Complexity &
> >         feedback
> > Message-ID:
> >         <BY5PR12MB39852EDD96A4B026324DCA5EF35C2 at BY5PR12MB3985.namprd12.prod.outlook.com> mailto:BY5PR12MB39852EDD96A4B026324DCA5EF35C2 at BY5PR12MB3985.namprd12.prod.outlook.com
> >        
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
> > 
> > Thank you, Pedro, for your thoughtful post. I hope some people will react, and we will kick the ball towards some goal.  Alternatively, the discussion might evolve by random mutations.
> > 
> > By the way, Gordana and Sheri: more thoughts about the relationship between cybernetics and complex systems theory with evolution?
> > 
> > Peter
> > ________________________________
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Fis mailing list
> > Fis at listas.unizar.es mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es
> > http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> > ----------
> > INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
> > 
> > Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> > Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> > Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> > http://listas.unizar.es
> > ----------
> > 
> -- 
> Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
> Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!S8sYyrI-7gLLhxzyRZD0ANeC-R-r10WzArUwd6oxVN3kvGcFDIKhuL7nK3WlIj7TQ0WlVZFoOrDVGzaszbPv1dWsu6o$  https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!R-Gi37vuYLoUksqZFW0zHvoDcMrSEa9O7hXZuPDmD02RM8Q1aJhZ0z9PSXhDtRXoYNBYNRsPyBzQpvb5NZrIzJ0$
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
> 
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
> 
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20241119/f14d01e1/attachment-0001.html>

More information about the Fis mailing list