[Fis] With or without math?

[Eric Werner]

Dear Stu and All you wonderful intelligent beings,

It is amazing how consistently, accurately and even stubbornly embryos 
of a species develop into their unique unambiguous form. This reminds 
one if not of equations but of formal mathematical systems that may be 
applied to understand this complex process. The advantage of abstraction 
is that it permits us to understand the somewhat indefinite.

Deduction also used in exchange for reasoning, a much broader form of 
logic.  In that sense life may indeed be very logical. Let me be a bit 
more provocative:  We are the artists use mathematical methods to 
describe and understand, while life uses deduction directly to infer the 
morphology of the embryo from the information in the genome.

To reduce life to thermodynamic work really confuses levels of 
information and ontology, as physicists are tempted to do when over 
applying an area to where it not longer fits.  The Procrustean bed of 
physics may cut off the very limbs or spark of life that gives it its 
unique qualities.

That is not to say that physics is irrelevant and I am snuggling up to 
spiritualists or any other religion.  Rather it needs to be integrated 
into the Kantian whole that Stu correctly emphasizes.

We need to integrate information, physics, intentions, cooperative 
generative capacities of multiple agents via communicative organizations 
as wholes.  I am getting at viewing embryos as multi agent communicating 
systems, as a form of social being.

Add to that indefinite phase spaces where possibilities are no longer 
set, well...

That's  bit of work ahead of us!

-Eric

On 1/9/24 9:00 PM, Louis Kauffman wrote:
> I never said Nature engages in deduction, except in her variously distributed minds.
> (Put this to next week if necessary.)
>
>> On Jan 9, 2024, at 11:08 AM, Stuart Kauffman<stukauffman at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Lou and Krassimir. And/But….
>>
>> Living systems are not formal deductions. Living systems do thermodynamic work to construct themselves as physical entities. The evolving biosphere really is a non-deducible propagating construction, not an entailed deduction. Mere formal deduction constructs nothing physical, que no? Living cells are not merely passive cognizes. As open non-equilibrium chemical reaction systems they must eat or die.
>> BES
>> Stu
>>
>>> On Jan 9, 2024, at 9:50 AM, Louis Kauffman<loukau at gmail.com>  wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Krassimir,
>>> Yes. With!
>>> But if ‘It from Bit” means a participatory universe as with Wheeler, then we need to have
>>> FormalMath+Cognizers
>>> to understand and work with it.
>>> In fact Mathematics as a Way of Thinking
>>> is indeed Formality+Cognition.
>>> Best,
>>> Lou
>>> P.S. I have a slideshow related to this theme. I will send it to Krassimir. If anyone else would like to see it, just write privately to me at
>>> loukau at gmail.com
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-- 
/Dr. Eric Werner
Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VKJdUKgPqgjOe0KxcXR_ZJZEf0FNApiP2pDaN25OncXktbzct_qOBtbi8_dYmdSbVCXihx8tmxyM4NeZX0cpvJs$ 


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