[Fis] Five Clouds over Fundamental Information Science -- Concluding Comments

Mon Dec 23 08:54:16 CET 2024

Dear Krassimir,

I am pleased to see you have created a new agenda that goes beyond the definition of information. The “5 Clouds” may not encompass all the obstacles hindering the progress of fundamental information science, but if we can address most of them, we will have a significant improvement in our future.

Currently, there is a difficulty in establishing dialogue between researchers in professional information science and fundamental information science. The former always asks, "What is information science?" The latter always answers: "Information is something."

Alright, it's time to conclude this discussion. Let’s take a few days off and get ready to read Pedro’s 2025 New Year lecture.

Best regards,

Xueshan

From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> On Behalf Of Krassimir Markov
Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2024 8:15 PM
To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: [Fis] (no subject)

Dear Xueshan,

Thanks for the detailed answer.

I will add that just as mathematics develops as (theoretical) mathematics and applied mathematics in different areas of practice, so too does information science develop as (theoretical) information science and applied information science in different areas of reality. Computer Science and Informatics develop as extensions of information science, directly related to the practice and implementation of machines for operating with data and knowledge.

Therefore, I think it is justified to talk about:

- information science and studies;

- applied information science and studies.

I have a proposal for the subject and foundations of this science, but now is not the time to start such a discussion. Perhaps I will first publish concise texts that will be available for discussion.

Dear Christophe,

Of course, as it is  pointed out in 2017 in our joint paper from the FIS discussion, information is data with meaning, i.e.

information = data + meaning

Let's do a little transformation and transfer the "meaning" to the other side. We get:

information - meaning = data

Since data are reflections in the receptors of the subject, we can say that:

information - meaning = reflection, in a particular case = data.

This consideration allows us to say that all developments and definitions based on "information without meaning" refer to reflections, in particular - data, and do not concern the information with which subjects operate. In fact, they all rediscover or further develop parts of the Theory of Reflections.

Dear Gordana,

I think I gave in my response to Xueshan above the answer to your question "What do we want the study of information to be?"

My answer to your other question, “Can we live with a plurality of notions of information?", is:

- Yes, we can live with multiple definitions of information, but in fact there are not that many. In addition, some definitions define something else, but not the concept of "information", as we saw above. I will note, however, that it is difficult to find the methodological and factual shortcomings of the proposed new definitions, and this helps them to swarm.

For example, regarding the publication of Stu Kaufman and Andrea Rolli, I will remember that I see in it a serious methodological flaw.

I also argue " that no mathematics based on set theory can be used to deduce the diachronic emergence of adaptations in evolution". But this does not mean " that there can be no Final Theory that entails the becoming of the universe". Simply because modern mathematics has given us other tools, on the one hand, and on the other, there are a number of simulation approaches and systems that allow modeling these processes. 

In addition, we must remember that models are not reality itself, but its partial reflection, and therefore we cannot recreate reality through models, but we can externalize some of our ideas about it, creating corresponded models and thus make them available to other scientists who can continue further.

But if we have no ideas, what do we expect our models to contain? This is exactly the case with the "becoming of the universe".

If no one has any idea, why is a model expected to reveal this on its own?

Dear colleagues,

We are on the threshold of the New Year 2025.

Moreover, today, 21.12.2024, is the transition day to the New Bulgarian Year 7530, which starts tomorrow ( <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Q558tG6NM4auOvNpkSnhaG3WcaPF6oRTBzEUTby2ES5aHlHvv1AO6zKAOKCxCClqC5zRL243b5927vzUsnE$> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://bgkalendar.com/?lang=en__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UNtqamMZsOaUcYhJAQkSgyqe_Cvw5vRsuHrf1ra-KCiK4CdZpxXWnansX6QeF-X0UWpxd4wNhe3wgPyw$ ).

As the holiday season approaches, I want to express my warmest wishes for a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. May these holidays bring you peace, happiness and the opportunity to reflect on the successes and challenges of the past year. May the New Year 2025 be filled with groundbreaking discoveries, inspiring collaborations, and continued growth in all your scientific endeavors.

Merry Holidays and a Happy New Year!

Warmest regards,

Krassimir

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