[Fis] Emotional Sentience & The Tao - Author Responses - Some Related Issues
Xueshan Yan
yxs at pku.edu.cn
Mon Apr 29 09:37:45 CEST 2024
Dear Kate,
Your investigation on emotional sentience is fascinating, initially, it seems rooted in psychology but at last evolves into an information-centric issue through the perspective of Chinese Tao, physics, and physiology. As a Chinese individual and a fellow from the same hometown of the author of Tao Te Ching, the core work of Taoism theory, I offer the following reflections:
1. Modern History
In October 1981, during his sole visit to China, John Wheeler, after watching a performance rich in Taoist Yin and Yang philosophies in Beijing, remarked on how his lifelong contemplation of physics had echoed in advance in ancient Chinese thought. In March 1989, he proposed the controversial saying "It from bit" in United States, sparking ongoing discussions within the FIS community. In our group, Joseph Brenner has explored the relationship between Tao and Information Science deeply. Many years ago, he suggested me to organize a group of Chinese scholars to discuss the information ideas in Taoism, but this venture unfortunately did not materialize. Presently, the most exhaustive exploration of Tao and Information Science is championed by Xiaoguang Wen, a MIT physicist aligned with Wheeler's theories, potentially a future Nobel laureate. Thus, I commend you for forging the link between emotional sentience and information through the prism of Taoism.
2. My Viewpoint
>From my perspective, the ancient Taoist text, Tao Te Ching, posits that "All things stem from the Tao" similar to Wheeler's "It from bit". Similarly, the Book of Changes, another Chinese classic also intertwined with information themes, have a large following in China too. Despite the multitude of researchers studying Tao Te Ching and the Book of Changes, their interpretations lack universal acceptance and conclusive resolution, The outcome of its relationship with information is similar to the outcome of Wheeler's “It from bit”: eternal inspiration, never result. Using information to explain emotional sentience issue is a huge achievement for psychology or physiology, but there are thousands of information problems in information science, and what we urgently need is the unified explanation for all information problem, such as core characteristics, communication law, computation model, and more.
3. My Confusion
I have discussed the above topics extensively in my 2016 comprehensive massive book Information Science: Concept, System and Perspective - just like my spending 72 pages to information concept, I have deeply discussed most of the current information issues: human information, physical information, biological information, chemical information, the framework of information science, and so on. Regrettably, this contribution were not acknowledged at the IS4SI 2023 Beijing Conference, I am very astonished, this disregard makes me worried about the future of FIS and IS4SI, I am concerning about the development of related matters.
Best wishes,
Xueshan
PS:
Information Science: Concept, System and Perspective
Xueshan Yan
Beijing, China, 2016
Science Press
Contents
Foreword......................................................................... i
Acknowledgments....................................................... xi
Part I General Situation of Information Science
Chapter 1 The Study of Information Definition.... 3
1.1 The Information Concept in Chinese before 1948..................................................................... 4
1.2 The Information Concept in English before 1948................................................................... 10
1.3 The Prevalence of the Information Concept after 1948........................................................... 21
1.4 Various Definitions of Information................... 29
1.5 Approximate Concepts of Information............. 54
Chapter 2 The History of Information Science.... 78
2.1 The Two Major Sources of Information Science 79
2.2 Three Basic Names of Information Studies...... 89
2.3 The Three Classical Schools of Information Science....................................................... 98
Chapter 3 The Present of Information Science. 119
3.1 The Different Information Issues in Different Disciplines................................................ 119
3.2 Modern Information Science.......................... 136
3.3 The Current Information Science System....... 142
Chapter 4 The Concepts and Patterns of Information Science................................................ 147
4.1 Some Basic Concepts in Information Science. 147
4.2 Patterns of Information Science..................... 181
Part II The Review of Three Main Professional Information Disciplines
Chapter 5 Technological Informatics.................. 189
5.1 Computer Science.......................................... 190
5.2 Telecommunications Science......................... 206
Chapter 6 Cellular Informatics............................. 235
6.1 Neural Informatics......................................... 238
6.2 Endocrine Informatics.................................... 251
6.3 Genetic Informatics....................................... 265
Chapter 7 Human Informatics.............................. 283
7.1 Psychology.................................................... 285
7.2 Communicology............................................ 298
7.3 Linguistics..................................................... 309
7.4 Infordomics................................................... 326
Part III Some Controversial Issues in Information Science
Chapter 8 Are They the Members of Information Science?..................................................................... 347
8.1 Is Statistics a Developed Information Science?................................................................. 348
8.2 Is Geography an Information Science?........... 353
8.3 Can Chemistry be Comprehended an Information Science?................................................... 357
8.4 Is Biology an Informational Science?............. 365
Chapter 9 Can the Following Professional Informatics be Established?.................................. 374
9.1 Physical Informatics...................................... 374
9.2 Animal Informatics........................................ 380
9.3 Plant Informatics........................................... 385
Chapter 10 The Analysis of Several Popular Informatics................................................................ 392
10.1 Medical Informatics..................................... 392
10.2 Geographic Informatics............................... 396
10.3 Bioinformatics............................................. 399
Chapter 11 Information Management and Information Systems............................................... 407
11.1 Understanding Information Management..... 407
11.2 The Future of Information Management...... 421
Chapter 12 From Social Informatics to Human Informatics................................................................ 431
12.1 What is Social Informatics?......................... 431
12.2 What is Human Informatics?........................ 442
12.3 From Social Informatics to Human Informatics................................................................. 468
Chapter 13 Does Everything Come from Information?............................................................. 478
13.1 Examples in Physics.................................... 480
13.2 Reality and Measurement............................. 482
13.3 Approximate Theories in China................................................................. 486.... (I discussed it in three parts: 1. Tai Chi; 2. Tao; 3. Informatism) ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... ....................................................................... .......................................................................
13.4 The Ultimate Theory of the Universe........... 494
Chapter 14 Overview of Information Measurement........................................................... 500
14.1 A Survey of Information Measurement......... 500
14.2 The Past and Present of Shannon Theory...... 504
14.3 Shannon Theory vs. Entropy Theory............ 510
14.4 General Examples of Shannon Measurement 515
14.5 Further Considerations about Information Measurement............................................ 520
14.6 Views on Information Measurement............. 530
Part IV Development and Perspective of Information Science
Chapter 15 Advancement in Information Science..................................................................................... 539
15.1 Princeton: The Earliest Query to Information Science……………. 539
15.2 Cottbus: A Multidisciplinary Conference to Information Science.................................. 542
15.3 Madrid: The First International Conference on FIS........................................................... 544
15.4 Vienna: The Second International Conference on FIS........................................................... 546
15.5 Paris: The Third International Conference on FIS........................................................... 548
15.6 Beijing: The Fourth International Conference on FIS........................................................... 549
Chapter 16 The New Thinking about Information Science....................................................................... 553
16.1 The Necessity of Interdisciplinary Information Studies...................................................... 553
16.2 Philosophical Considerations of a Unified Theory of Information........................................... 570
Chapter 17 Discussions about Information Science via Internet................................................. 587
17.1 The Concept of Information......................... 590
17.2 Physical Information.................................... 599
17.3 Biological Information................................. 606
17.4 Social Information....................................... 614
17.5 Other Information........................................ 620
17.6 Information Science..................................... 630
Chapter 18 Perspective of Information Science 639
18.1 The Development of a Unified Information Science..................................................... 639
18.2 The Perspective of the Future of Information Science..................................................... 649
18.3 Epilogue...................................................... 659
References................................................................. 667
Index of Names........................................................ 706
Postscript................................................................... 719
From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> On Behalf Of Katherine Peil Kauffman
Sent: Monday, April 29, 2024 6:37 AM
To: fis at listas.unizar.es; "Pedro C. Marijuán" <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>
Subject: [Fis] Emotional Sentience & The Tao - Author Responses
Dear FIS community,
It has been an honor and pleasure to learn so much from you all. Although information science is new to me, I am finding treasure troves from many directions that lend support to my emotion model.
Aaron: To my mind, your emphasis on origin and function of synapses gets to the deeper dynamics of computation in networks, the central role of relational connectivity, and how possibilities get tweaked up and down in Domain 0.
Stuart: Your point about the unmanifest in Jain tradition reminded me that I forgot to mention contextuality as one of the key quantum features. Also too, the moral imperative in Jainism is perhaps the closest to that within our emotional biology: “Do not do that to others which pains thyself”. This is the reverse of the Golden Rule because the conditions which cause emotional pain are universal. Self-preservation gets the highest priority, which is why 4 out of 5 basic emotions are painful: Sadness (is about loss, loss of energy, need-meeting resources, etc); Disgust (is about contamination of food, poison, and germ aversion); Fear (is about threats in the immediate environment), and Anger (is about just and equitable human dignity, agentic freedom and personal empowerment). This information is encoded in what is called the appraisal themes of the various emotions and they bridge cleanly to a set of universal needs similar to Maslow’s needs hierarchy.
Krassimir: Yes! The [-1, 0,+1] interval describes the No~Yes dualist language of the body, and the logic of Negative~Positive emotion - which occurs in Domain 1. But the 0 would imply the optimal state of Tao-like balance on the edge-of-chaos, the homeodynamic state to which the system will return to as part of the corrective response. This is the basis of the negative feedback homeostasis and constraint closure. At a deeper level, in Domain 0 where language of waves (oscillations) is spoken; this 0 state of balance relates to the natural harmonic of the particular geometric, phenotypal structure of the living organism. This feels like the home state, like lowest energy state, emotionally relaxed and peaceful.
Plamen: The connection between physical and psychological “stress” is central to understanding the self-regulatory function of emotion. Keely’s work demonstrating the connection between feeling sick, inflammation, and feeling sad – energy loss from the system. The connection between brain and body are manifold, including the immune system, the HPA axis, endocrine and paracrine systems, polyvagal nerve, the microbiome, even epigenetic methylation as memory marks. However, the informational and causal flow goes both ways. Emotion is the language – the music – of the body. The binary feelings in emotional pleasure and pain (what Selye originally called Eustress~Distress) offer a course graining of all these lower levels and those conjured by our mindscape feed back down yielding placebo and nocebo effects (in addition to inflammatory responses and chronic disease).
Christophe: Through Gordana’s link I’ve learned a bit more about your Meaning Making System. It’s wonderful in that it goes beyond syntactics to address semantics – values, which is largely missing from most approaches. But I would add that organisms have two overarching evolutionary purposes, adaptive self-development (which includes all learning) as well as “must stay alive”.
Gordana: You are a kindred soul indeed. Between your papers and that lovely talk on the role of natural computations undergirding basal intelligence you’ve pointed directly to some key features of our emotional sense. Since the parallels are so many, I’ll just offer some contrasts and additions. First, while Kahneman’s dual process model remains popular, its use in psychology still carries the pejorative Cartesian idea that the bottom-up pathways that inform the fast system are inferior and foul the mindscape with “cognitive biases” – much of which are rooted in misunderstandings of emotional processes. Second, I’m completely on board with Jablonka in terms of the Evolution of the Sensitive Soul – with one addition: She pins it all on associative learning but does not give Pavlov or emotion their rightful due. Learning in living systems requires the fundamental semantic information bit that we experience as emotional (affective, hedonic) qualia. It is the “unconditioned” stimulus-response pair within classical Pavlovian conditioning, innate evaluative punishment and reward. Third, I hear you on that “speaking about that which cannot be spoken” thing. Its taken 35 years for science sufficient to frame the emotional system. Then again, “The Tao that can be spoken, is not The Tao” ~ Lao Tzu
Mike: Your work has been revelatory in identifying the deeper bioelectric levels of self-regulatory process and the sensory stimulus undergirding emotion. Thank you. For example, the Comparison step of my little loop of mind (the ongoing comparison between self and not-self, between internal and external environments) can be instantiated bio-electrically at the cellular level by the High~Low cell membrane potential V, which provides the step 2 Signal via polarized~depolarized states, which carries the Yes~No, Good~Bad Evaluation (depolarization being associated with cancer). Please correct me if I’ve misinterpreted or taken too much liberty. But this upward bridge to affect is huge. I also see a downward bridge to Watson’s natural induction via Song and Hoffman’s Markov Kernels, via emotional resonance~dissonance.
Pedro: Your absence herein has been palpable. I hope life is delivering its very best to you and yours. As this month comes to a close, please know that I’m happy to continue this discussion if there is sufficient interest.
With all best wishes,
Kate Kauffman
From: fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> On Behalf Of Katherine Peil Kauffman
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 7:36 AM
To: fis at listas.unizar.es; "Pedro C. Marijuán" <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>
Subject: [Fis] Emotional Sentience and The Tao author response
Dear FIS community,
Thanks for trying on my Tao framework for size and kicking off the discussion.
Karl: You have introduced me to a whole new realm, thank you. A general comment is that your points on sorting and grouping (cycles, liaisons, and information) are all highly relevant to the patterned information in what I call Domain 0. I hope we can find common language as it concerns your natural primitives and my fundamental semantic information bit, if we are to bridge from quantity (and position) to quality (and position). Perhaps a fruitful start might be the lower five through which animals assemble their mental cartography? So much more to say, but thank you for the education your sorting experiment and papers provide.
Eric: I’d love to hear what you have to say about the dimensional architecture of Kantian Wholes, as that structural, operational, and informational closure is central to the organization of living systems – at every level of scale. Apologies for jumping topics – I get that a lot from Stu too (and indeed I chalk it up to hemispheric lateralization), but my intent was to offer examples of my use of the Tao to tether to both personal experience and various literature across disciplines. As for sitting on a mountain (versus emotionally informed acting in the world), you crack me up. But I do hope you will consider the binaries I mentioned and how appear in your personal experiences. Your earlier points about complex emotions and sociality (experienced in Domain 1), for example, flow from the dual structure of identity rooted in dance of wholes~parts from Domain 0. Yet, when we distinguish self from other in a rigid way, (or worse, us versus them tribalism), autopilot negative emotional defenses and conflict are predictable. Think of having a lovely picnic with your significant other (up on that mountain). Everything is flowing, loving and the “we” feeling between you is palpable. Then your partner suddenly says something disrespectful, and boom – just like that – anger rears its head and your identity shifts to purely “me”. This lies at the core of why both selfishness and selflessness are unbalanced dysregulated self-states.
Joe: I’d love to hear more about setting a Kantian Whole in motion. Do you mean the dyamics at each level within a Kantian Whole? Or between the Whole and its local environment? Something else? As for the nitty gritty of how one gets from the complements in electromagnetism to the binary feelings we experience, you are right it takes a deep dive – as well taking quantum biology at face value. Personally, I suspect there are aspects of the electromagnetic force that may divide cleanly into Domains 0 and 1, but my assumption about creative interactions between them are rooted in particles like
anyons https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WudsMfpziA-2s2gttfni7oBTI7TEdo2tKWhFGvdF6fsw70MdaPkwKGg9GeohqaLmWzc_FbVLooLP8njP$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anyon__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyrSn1tgxQ$> that can behave as either fermions or bosons, in altermagnetism
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WudsMfpziA-2s2gttfni7oBTI7TEdo2tKWhFGvdF6fsw70MdaPkwKGg9GeohqaLmWzc_FbVLoup5dwWK$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/journals.aps.org/prx/pdf/10.1103/PhysRevX.12.040501__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyppIiijuA$> or liquid-liquid phase transitions https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!WudsMfpziA-2s2gttfni7oBTI7TEdo2tKWhFGvdF6fsw70MdaPkwKGg9GeohqaLmWzc_FbVLohvf24os$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0927796X23000487__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!XNLxpQ5MpBeagI_SS_MahGSDa0_2lZ485q4vOZwfhfolJtNiFS0mMSTn6ht1dohIv0twYTlHCyoIzsM3wA$> .
Please tell me more about your version of The Tao and your both~neither logic, and how it might relate to the primary self-not-self comparisons in the self-regulatory mechanisms I mentioned. (I hear hints of Terry Deacon’s incompleteness, that is somewhat captured by the idea of possibles that do not yet exist.) Is it something like the universal NAND gate? And thank you for the offer of luck, I will take it. For mindless self-destruction is the predictable outcome of ignorance regarding the self-regulatory function of emotion.
Gordana: Thank you for pointing out the ubiquity of natural computation, and for the updated view of algorithms – as open and creative. (I’ll share that with Stu!) I’d like to hear more about super-recursive algorithms, their role (if any) in the development of mind, and any other sage advice you might offer.
With gratitude and kindred affection,
Kate Kauffman
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