[Fis] The Basic Core of Wisdom - the main body

Tue Oct 31 13:14:00 CET 2023

Dear Pedro, all,

Your comment here is interesting: "Nevertheless, in our times whatever
wisdom might be around remains buried under growing heaps of specialized,
mostly technological knowledge."

There is a key question which arises from this: Do we think that wisdom is
separable from the 'heaps of specialized technical knowledge'? Can a
surgeon act wisely if they don't know how to use a scalpel? Is it important
to know and do what we are talking about at some depth of experience? I
suspect so.

So perhaps the problem is the "burying". What/who performs the burial?
Education must be the first culprit there - what do we do about it? There's
nothing stopping people gaining deeper specialised knowledge if they are
so-motivated. But there is a lot that stops us making connections between
deep practice, thought and judgement.

Wittgenstein made a similar comment in his discussion on aesthetics
(here: Lectures
and Conversations on Aesthetics, Psychology, and Religious Belief -
Wikipedia
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lectures_and_Conversations_on_Aesthetics,_Psychology,_and_Religious_Belief__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UDM9seONslBjXfcZ8UBWA03nVBsuMBazB9J3KhN_Nu1Rabje1TQ00vqtl9Gae2nbSkArGz7p83TSbENdFH7ffuM$ >
):

> When we make an aesthetic judgement about a thing, we do not just gape at
> it and say: "Oh! How marvellous!" We distinguish between a person who knows
> what he is talking about and a person who doesn't. If a person is to admire
> English poetry, he must know English. Suppose that a Russian who doesn't
> know English is overwhelmed by a sonnet admitted to be good. We would say
> that he does not know what is in it. In music this is more pronounced.
> Suppose there is a person who admires and enjoys what is admitted to be
> good but can't remember the simplest tunes, doesn't know when the bass
> comes in, etc. We say he hasn't seen what's in it. We use the phrase 'A man
> is musical' not so as to call a man musical if he says "Ah!" when a piece
> of music is played, any more than we call a dog musical if it wags its tail
> when music is played.

If there is a paradigm shift that is required, it is an epistemological
shift that is in this space.

Best wishes,

Mark

On Tue, 31 Oct 2023 at 11:26, Pedro C. Marijuán <pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Chen and FIS colleagues,
>
> Welcome to the list. Your comments on the "main body" are interesting.
> They look close to the (Taoist?) tradition of "*chi flow*" in the body.
> The interrelation between the* li *and the *chi* in the organism looks
> quite enigmatic (say, information flow vs. energy flow: time ago I
> published about that from the point of view of cellular gauge symmetry).
> This interesting "main body" theme may also be connected with the
> discussions on consciousness... Nevertheless, I fail to see the
> relationship with "wisdom". Most parties in this list are discussing about
> wisdom from a "realist stance" (as something clearly delimited in the real
> world) while I adopt a "nominalist" position: it represents nothing but a
> useful artificial convention about an unassailable phenomenon.
> Nevertheless, in our times whatever wisdom might be around remains buried
> under growing heaps of specialized, mostly technological knowledge. Taking
> its evanescent presence as a crucial distinction between humans and the new
> AI systems does not look very "wise"...  If we provide full Autonomy and
> maybe some form of embodiment (robotic?) to these systems, well, things
> could be pretty problematic, far beyond the realistic or nominalist stance
> around wisdom.
>
> Best--Pedro
>
> BY THE WAY, THERE ARE AT LEAST 6 MESSAGES BLOCKED BY THE SERVER DUE TO
> THEIR EXCESSIVE LENGTH, BEYOND THE LIMIT OF 300 K. SO DIFFICULT IS CLEANING
> THE "TAIL" OF PREVIOUS MESSAGES (OR AT LEAST A PART OF THEM)????  ADMIRABLE
> STUBBORNNESS OF SOME FIS COLLEAGUES!
> --------------------------------------------
>
> El 30/10/2023 a las 2:13, shda1 escribió:
>
> Dear everyone,
> Sorry! I encountered a formatting error in my reply yesterday and will
> resend it today.
>
> I am delighted that everyone can discuss wisdom from artificial
> intelligence. Here, I propose a more basic and core concept about wisdom -
> the main body, which is the fundamental concept of wisdom.
> The main body, also known as the main body program, is a high-level
> program combination of energy. The the main body needs to combine with the
> organism in order to exist and form a main body existence. Main body
> existence is an existence with autonomy and initiative, and the extension
> of main body is greater than that of the living body. The living body is
> only a common type of main body existence. AI has no main body, so no
> matter how powerful it may be, it does not belong to the main body
> existence and can only be an appendage of the living body. So, is there a
> possibility that AI will also break through itself and gain the main body?
> Never possible! The main body is a product of natural evolution in the
> universe, which humans cannot manufacture and can only use reasonably. Chen
> Wang Visiting Professor at SEGD University New Civilization International
> Cooperation Organization
>
>
>
>
> At 2023-10-29 21:39:54, "" <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> wrote:
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> >Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Plamen)
> >   2. Re: PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Eric Werner)
> >   3. Re: PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?. (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov)
> >
> >
> >----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 1
> >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 13:26:22 +0100
> >From: Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
> >To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> >Subject: [Fis] PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?.
> >Message-ID: <8BA2DCA1-27E6-4F2D-BA86-086716AA2AED at gmail.com> <8BA2DCA1-27E6-4F2D-BA86-086716AA2AED at gmail.com>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> >
> >https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$
> >
> >
> >Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >------------------------------
> >
> >Message: 2
> >Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:16:40 +0100
> >From: Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org> <eric.werner at oarf.org>
> >To: Plamen <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com> <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>, fis <fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> >Subject: Re: [Fis] PTSD: AI biases absorbed by humans?.
> >Message-ID: <e6736449-2532-442e-b6d9-32e19024eafc at oarf.org> <e6736449-2532-442e-b6d9-32e19024eafc at oarf.org>
> >Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; Format="flowed"
> >
> >Dear Plamen,
> >
> >Fully agree that such systems can have bias and that this bias can
> >infect humans. However, one person's bias is another's truth. All the
> >experiment showed was the heritability of bias from AI system to human.?
> >That is a problem.
> >
> >However, in a political setting one would have to very cautious when
> >larger corporations and governments start to determine what is bias and
> >what is not. '
> >
> >How to avoid "bias" will I think be an impossible task.
> >
> >Best wishes,
> >
> >Eric
> >
> >On 10/29/23 1:26 PM, Plamen wrote:
> >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www-scientificamerican-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.scientificamerican.com/article/humans-absorb-bias-from-ai-and-keep-it-after-they-stop-using-the-algorithm/?amp=true__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SHUUOa4B0F9kxK2vjy8cLrhqjUToq5OW3Hg5CAyMsxtzWQVAGmOy6WQe2zDxR30Y8IisMW5zooatI8r__i5cvhJUWN0N$
> >>
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> _______________________________________________
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Faculty of Biology, Medicine and Health
University of Manchester

Department of Science Education
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