[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 102, Issue 5

Mon Jun 5 15:06:35 CEST 2023

Dear colleagues,
I must point out that I agree with all the opinions you have written.
What is missing?

In my humble opinion, goal setting and maintaining homeostasis of systems
is absent. In other words, a message that leads to decision-making in the
direction of destroying the system and in favor of the sender of the
message can be classified as "disinformation" (a term introduced in the
USSR and still used mainly in its successor countries ).

I use the term INFOS to refer to all levels of systems capable of making
decisions. Society is also INFOS, and what has been said applies with
particular force to this level.

We received the most vivid example during the Covid pandemic in Bulgaria.
Precisely because of "competently" spoken messages, tens of thousands of
Bulgarians lost their lives, even more were left with health problems for
life. Bulgaria ranks second in the world in the number of deaths from Covid
per 1 million inhabitants. Yes, definitely, from Bulgaria's point of view,
the messages that vaccines are harmful, that medical protective masks
should not be worn, and that the necessary distance should not be observed,
led to this sad result for Bulgaria. Were these messages disinformation?
Definitely yes! Should society have reacted - also definitely - yes. And
this would not be that "communist" censorship, but necessary prevention in
order to preserve the homeostasis of society.

Why didn't it happen?
The answer is obvious - through the chaos that occurred, the interests of a
foreign country, which was preparing to start a war, were advanced. In
fact, Covid in Bulgaria, and not only, was used as a biological weapon. A
remarkable confirmation of these words is the sharp drop in new cases
immediately after the war in Ukraine began. Please see the graphs at
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QUj8oZVpxbW4gBAiQgTdMO5KEav0dLLdyYjhk8nrUphG9recG0xu4jKG24cWIFO_JiAaI882VHe17Al39aI$ .

Finally, in times of war, each state should monitor the flow of messages
that reach many people and counter them. In the kingdom of Moscow this is
now carried to the extreme. It is natural for the European Union to take
measures to limit the harmful informational impact of countries that aim to
destroy it.

Regards and best wishes,
Krassimir

На пн, 5.06.2023 г. в 13:52 ч. <fis-request at listas.unizar.es> написа:

> Send Fis mailing list submissions to
>         fis at listas.unizar.es
>
> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>         http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>         fis-request at listas.unizar.es
>
> You can reach the person managing the list at
>         fis-owner at listas.unizar.es
>
> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Information, misinformation, disinformation
>       (Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov" <plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
> To: Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com>
> Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>, konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com>
> Bcc:
> Date: Mon, 5 Jun 2023 12:51:13 +0200
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
> This is all correct, Lou. But I don't think that the EU is primarily
> interested in solving these kinds of problems.
> What we had in the past were e.g. regulations of how straight and long
> green cucumbers on the market should be.
> Everything is about proper standards. It does not matter that "diversity"
> is in all mouths.
> We also witnessed how science was raped innumerous times during the past 3
> years.
>
> So, I see this kind of directives, incl. institutional top-down education,
> i.e. indoctrination, like the one of novel studies like CRT, pedophilia,
> etc. in the US schools as the wrong approach.  These alien disruption
> CULTures of the new world era administered by enforcement as injections to
> the conscious mind of presumably intelligent human beings are incompatible
> with the definition of intelligence per se. People do co-evolve with the
> environment and meanwhile many have developed high sensitivity towards
> fake/true information without directions from above.
> If this centralized top-down order continues, we may land in an old era
> that was considered as gone.
> I was witness to such "order" in my young years, but even it was not as
> restrictive to the free exchange of ideas and opinions as this one.
> Why this fear of "disinformation"? Only totalitarian regimes fear like
> that.
> History teaches. If we allow and bear that kind of policy, it won't last
> long until we face something like that here:
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ministry-of-propaganda-and-public-enlightenment__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QUj8oZVpxbW4gBAiQgTdMO5KEav0dLLdyYjhk8nrUphG9recG0xu4jKG24cWIFO_JiAaI882VHe1XTFGxHA$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/ministry-of-propaganda-and-public-enlightenment__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!RqmoZnQAMCcF1FwE4yXNOky-4pwWx9fvAmQ_7iIjKssu3fBzgV4D_2qU0uvCQWnlT9G1ENx2DmmZ2DoQWDl2zViQv_Et$>
>
> Best,
>
> Plamen
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 5, 2023 at 9:47 AM Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> In scientific communities, evolving criteria for acceptable information
>> goes on all the time and is
>> a marker for freedom of thought, not for censorship. At the same time, it
>> is the case that such communities often are caught in orthodoxies and fixed
>> viewpoints that require certain generations to simply die out to be
>> rectified. We make progress in scientific knowing by having evolving
>> criteria for
>> acceptable results. Note also that the criterion for acceptability is the
>> independent production of those results by other researchers. Under such
>> conditions this is the
>> opposite of censorship. Alas, sociological and political results are much
>> harder to reproduce. But it is nevertheless possible to discriminate between
>> lies, fabrications and actual accounts of events. I say possible and to
>> the extent that people are educated to think for themselves and to think
>> critically, it becomes more
>> possible.
>>
>>
>> On Jun 5, 2023, at 2:24 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> the concept of disinformation is completely subjective.
>> According to Shannon, lies (noise) this is irrelevant information.
>> Relevance is compliance with the goals of the participants in the
>> information transfer process. Any message is relevant (truthful) if it
>> corresponds to the picture of the world of the sender and recipient of the
>> message. For example, a message about the existence of demons is truthful
>> information for a believer in demons, but the same message is
>> disinformation for an atheist.
>> Declarations on combating disinformation are a reason for the
>> introduction of stricter censorship by EU and EC officials. Obviously, if
>> this project is implemented, special sensors will be assigned that will
>> determine the level of reliability of messages and punish messages that
>> contradict the official picture of the world from EC officials
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Michel Petitjean
>> <petitjean.chiral at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* 05 June 2023 02:58
>> *To:* fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject:* [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
>>
>> Dear All,
>> Europa declares that fighting disinformation will be legal obligation.
>> Let me ask some questions:
>> - Who is able to recognize misinformation vs. information?
>> - When misinformation is recognized, who is able to establish an
>> intentional character, so that it is disinformation indeed?
>> - Who will be in charge to do the tasks above?
>> Well, in some simple cases disinformation can be recognized.
>> Just curious, would we all agree when such of these cases is stated to
>> have occurred?
>> Better would be to massively educate people rather than to censor.
>> All my best.
>> Michel. retired scientist.
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> ----------
>> INFORMACIN SOBRE PROTECCIN DE DATOS DE CARCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada
>> por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la informacin sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
>> siguiente enlace:
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
>> Recuerde que si est suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
>> baja desde la propia aplicacin en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> ----------
>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada
>> por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
>> siguiente enlace:
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
>> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Fis mailing list
>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>> ----------
>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada
>> por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
>> siguiente enlace:
>> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
>> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
>> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es
>> ----------
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20230605/fd75c5b4/attachment-0001.html>