[Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation

Mon Jun 5 10:28:22 CEST 2023

Dear Michel and colleagues,

I appreciate your thoughtful post and the ongoing discussion on this thread. As a silent observer with interests in Spencer Brown, Luhmann, social systems theory, and AI (particularly LLMs), I find the discourse both engaging and enlightening.

The issue at hand, namely the relationship between knowledge, information, and meaning (or semantics as the selection of actuality within a unity of difference with indeterminacy and endless possibility), is quite pertinent to my own reflections and research.

In the Batesonian sense, information is a difference that makes a difference. Can such information be false? My viewpoint is that information, in itself, is indifferent to truth. It is the role of scientific communication in our modern world to validate a statement as being either true or false. This concern for truth, I would argue, is how we conceptualize knowledge.

The Enlightenment aspiration for convergence and consensus in our knowledge systems has been significantly challenged, and not only by advancements in physics and mathematics. Sociological phenomena, as observable on platforms such as social media, indicate that the aspiration for universal consensus is far from reality. This renews the importance of questioning existing ontological distinctions of completeness and brings to the fore the relevance of Spencer Brown's ontological algebra in our era.

My recent blog post on the topic of knowledge and meaning with LLMs tackles these concepts further<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://chatgptineducationandsociety.wordpress.com/2023/06/01/whither-knowledge-whither-meaning/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QYtMdpcmLx63pGadY4KJ2DIXVXTZkqdL0SRPOR91XjHBQvDMJiOo7e9Kvu_I4QsIHVPB7PT7EFFyHcyF3Z49$ >, using late modernity's paradoxical nature as a backdrop. In an era where knowledge was expected to converge and stabilize across domains, we find ourselves facing diversity and complexity. Amidst this flux, the role of semantic structures or ‘meaning’ becomes crucial.

LLMs reflect this shift towards meaning, generating text that aligns closely with human cognition and understanding. They serve as valuable tools to navigate the changing knowledge landscapes. They also echo Spencer Brown's principles, treating knowledge as a recursive distinction and encouraging a critique of prevailing ontological views.

The intertwining of meaning and knowledge forms the basis of our understanding of the world. For example, “The sky is blue” is both a semantic structure and a piece of factual knowledge. The challenge lies in navigating this intersection, in creating learning environments that foster critical thinking and discernment of nuances.

Indeed, scientific communities continuously evolve criteria for acceptable information, marking not censorship but the freedom of thought. This evolution, however, is often impeded by orthodoxy and fixed viewpoints, sometimes requiring generational changes to rectify. True progress in scientific knowledge involves the independent reproduction of results by other researchers.

While it's harder to reproduce sociological and political results, discerning between lies, fabrications, and actual accounts of events is feasible. This discernment becomes more possible with an education that encourages critical thinking. Education should not only impart 'knowledge' but also nurture the ability to question, recognize the recursive distinction of the mark, and critique prevailing ontologies.

In response to Konstantin's point, while it is true that the concept of disinformation can be subjective, the aim should not be to dictate 'truth' but to facilitate critical thinking and promote open discourse. Statements about fighting disinformation should not be seen as an excuse for imposing censorship, but rather as a call for greater vigilance in the sense of observing how and how and why distinctions are made rather than which distinctions are true or false.

Best wishes,
Steve Watson

Dr Steven Watson
Associate Professor
Co-chair The Knowledge Power Politics Research Cluster (KPP<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://kppcam.net/about/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QYtMdpcmLx63pGadY4KJ2DIXVXTZkqdL0SRPOR91XjHBQvDMJiOo7e9Kvu_I4QsIHVPB7PT7EFFyHSkJjxbh$ >).
Faculty of Education
University of Cambridge
Room 3S19, Donald McIntyre Building
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Tel: 44 (0) 1223 (7)67584

Fellow of Wolfson College
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Recent writing:
Watson, S. (2023). ChatGPT and the Entangled Evolution of Society, Education, and Technology: A Systems Theory Perspective. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.13140/RG.2.2.19272.39689__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QYtMdpcmLx63pGadY4KJ2DIXVXTZkqdL0SRPOR91XjHBQvDMJiOo7e9Kvu_I4QsIHVPB7PT7EFFyHVD608TJ$ 
Watson, S., Romic, J., & Lien, V. (2023). ChatGPT与社会、教育和技术的纠缠进化：系统理论视角. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.13140/RG.2.2.16108.13448__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QYtMdpcmLx63pGadY4KJ2DIXVXTZkqdL0SRPOR91XjHBQvDMJiOo7e9Kvu_I4QsIHVPB7PT7EFFyHdLVXLmr$ 

ChatGPT Blog:
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://chatgptineducationandsociety.wordpress.com/2023/04/11/welcome-to-chatgpt-in-education-and-society-investigating-the-integration-of-ai-in-diverse-learning-environments/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!QYtMdpcmLx63pGadY4KJ2DIXVXTZkqdL0SRPOR91XjHBQvDMJiOo7e9Kvu_I4QsIHVPB7PT7EFFyHZTRgucY$ 

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From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Louis Kauffman <loukau at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, 5 June 2023 at 09:49
To: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation
In scientific communities, evolving criteria for acceptable information goes on all the time and is
a marker for freedom of thought, not for censorship. At the same time, it is the case that such communities often are caught in orthodoxies and fixed
viewpoints that require certain generations to simply die out to be rectified. We make progress in scientific knowing by having evolving criteria for
acceptable results. Note also that the criterion for acceptability is the independent production of those results by other researchers. Under such conditions this is the
opposite of censorship. Alas, sociological and political results are much harder to reproduce. But it is nevertheless possible to discriminate between
lies, fabrications and actual accounts of events. I say possible and to the extent that people are educated to think for themselves and to think critically, it becomes more
possible.

On Jun 5, 2023, at 2:24 AM, konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>> wrote:

the concept of disinformation is completely subjective.
According to Shannon, lies (noise) this is irrelevant information. Relevance is compliance with the goals of the participants in the information transfer process. Any message is relevant (truthful) if it corresponds to the picture of the world of the sender and recipient of the message. For example, a message about the existence of demons is truthful information for a believer in demons, but the same message is disinformation for an atheist.
Declarations on combating disinformation are a reason for the introduction of stricter censorship by EU and EC officials. Obviously, if this project is implemented, special sensors will be assigned that will determine the level of reliability of messages and punish messages that contradict the official picture of the world from EC officials
________________________________
From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>> on behalf of Michel Petitjean <petitjean.chiral at gmail.com<mailto:petitjean.chiral at gmail.com>>
Sent: 05 June 2023 02:58
To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
Subject: [Fis] Information, misinformation, disinformation

Dear All,
Europa declares that fighting disinformation will be legal obligation.
Let me ask some questions:
- Who is able to recognize misinformation vs. information?
- When misinformation is recognized, who is able to establish an
intentional character, so that it is disinformation indeed?
- Who will be in charge to do the tasks above?
Well, in some simple cases disinformation can be recognized.
Just curious, would we all agree when such of these cases is stated to
have occurred?
Better would be to massively educate people rather than to censor.
All my best.
Michel. retired scientist.
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://petitjeanmichel.free.fr/itoweb.petitjean.html__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!TJwbbe1lwYIxShwAfVBumCbM_Z8dLAOsPYouKKMFgAbgRlJOO-Hrq6KGYRxM2jIQ9ODmmYfdvxs8TQ6e1sxrhVXvMx3y$

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