[Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
konstantin lidin
lidinkl at hotmail.com
Wed Jan 25 07:27:47 CET 2023
Thank you, Howard. I completely agree with your thesis that the very concept of information quality (closely related to the concept of meaning) arises only in the situation of understanding (using) information and therefore is subjective.
I use the following definition of information:
information is a structural aspect of the existence of matter.
We know three aspects of the existence of matter.
Substance is an aspect reflecting the property of matter to be unchangeable.
Energy is an aspect reflecting the tendency of matter to move (change).
Information is an aspect reflecting the ability of matter to have structure.
These aspects do not exist in isolation. They continuously pass into each other. But the transition coefficients between them are extremely large. For the transition of matter into energy, the transition coefficient has the dimensions of the square of the speed of light. For the transition of energy into information, this is the Boltzmann constant.
Thus, the transition coefficient between matter and information has the size of an unimaginable 10^40
A living being, and especially a person from the point of view of matter, does not look too solid - it's basically a few buckets of dirty water and a bag of calcium phosphate.
In terms of energy, we are also small (power is about 0.1 horsepower).
But in the aspect of information, a person is a huge object of the order of zettabytes in size. Such a significant information "clot" is associated with all other information in the surrounding space.
Meaning (signal, relevant information) this is the part of the information coming from the surrounding space that can be included in the recipient's internal information structure.
For example, if you know Chinese, then writing in hieroglyphs is full of meaning for you. If you don't read hieroglyphs, this information makes no sense to you and looks like noise.
I've been using this definition for many years now, and I like it.
Konstantin
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From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>
Sent: 25 January 2023 07:37
To: dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com <dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>; fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
information is about stimulus and response. information is what a recipient can interpret by turning into action.
quarks act on the information from other quarks by fleeing or flying into each others' arms. stimulus and response.
the quality of information is in the capacity of the receiver.
for example, starlight fell on earth for billions of years without being interpreted and turned into action by any living or non-living things.
then came birds and other animals who used stars for guidance in their migrations. the starlight didn't change. but the quality of interpretation changed.
then came human astrologers and astronomers and, once again, the starlight didn't change. but the interpretations of that information rocketed in "quality."
with warmth and oomph--howard
-----Original Message-----
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way
Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?
If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <stanowskimariusz at wp.pl<mailto:stanowskimariusz at wp.pl>> wrote:
Hello,
I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.
Information is anything that can be distinguish in any way (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
Examples of information:
Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)
Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)
Information as an object - a stone
Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness
Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure
Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros. Structures in our mind are also equipped with energy.
Best regards
Mariusz Stanowski
W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch<mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> pisze:
Dear All,
The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.
The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.
In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.
This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics.
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph
----Original Message----
>From : lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)
To : fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>, loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>, howlbloom at aol.com<mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Thank you, Howard.
Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.
In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.
Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)
________________________________
From: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com><mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Sent: 24 January 2023 08:21
To: lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com> <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>; fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net> <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret.
the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.
with warmth and oomph--howard
-----Original Message-----
From: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. Topoi 35, 157–159 (2016). https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-TttIM3_Q$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$>
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From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: 23 January 2023 23:29
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:
1.1. Information
Consider an event E with probability p; the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that E in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?
Information
Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that p is close to 1 (e.g., p = .95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that E would take place. But suppose that p = .01, so that it is almost certain E will not occur. If E nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.
These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability p that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a decreasing function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is when the probability prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).
The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log 2 2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short, bits. When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a nit.
best, loet
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Loet Leydesdorff
"The Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$>(Open Access)
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information is about stimulus and response. information is what a recipient can interpret by turning into action.
quarks act on the information from other quarks by fleeing or flying into each others' arms.
the quality of information is in the capacity of the receiver.
for example, starlight fell on earth for billions of years without being interpreted and turned into action by any living or non-living things.
then came birds and other animals who used stars for guidance in their migrations. the starlight didn't change. but the quality of information interpretation changed.
then came human astrologers and astronomers and, once again, the starlight didn't change. but the interpretations of that information rocketed in "quality."
with warmth and oomph--howard
-----Original Message-----
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way
Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?
If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <stanowskimariusz at wp.pl<mailto:stanowskimariusz at wp.pl>> wrote:
Hello,
I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.
Information is anything that can be distinguish in any way (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
Examples of information:
Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)
Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)
Information as an object - a stone
Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness
Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure
Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros. Structures in our mind are also equipped with energy.
Best regards
Mariusz Stanowski
W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch<mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> pisze:
Dear All,
The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.
The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.
In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.
This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics.
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph
----Original Message----
>From : lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)
To : fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>, loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>, howlbloom at aol.com<mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Thank you, Howard.
Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.
In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.
Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)
________________________________
From: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com><mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Sent: 24 January 2023 08:21
To: lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com> <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>; fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net> <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret.
the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.
with warmth and oomph--howard
-----Original Message-----
From: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. Topoi 35, 157–159 (2016). https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-TttIM3_Q$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$>
________________________________
From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: 23 January 2023 23:29
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:
1.1. Information
Consider an event E with probability p; the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that E in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?
Information
Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that p is close to 1 (e.g., p = .95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that E would take place. But suppose that p = .01, so that it is almost certain E will not occur. If E nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.
These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability p that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a decreasing function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is when the probability prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).
The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log 2 2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short, bits. When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a nit.
best, loet
_______________
Loet Leydesdorff
"The Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$>(Open Access)
Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
loet at leydesdorff.net ; https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.leydesdorff.net/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-TMUsCxl0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.leydesdorff.net/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLGpM1vg4$>
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trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-T0IzdLs0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIi5mKNcrg$>
Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),
The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),
The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and
Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.
A Quartz Magazine Pro
Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space University Senior Scholar.
Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.
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-----Original Message-----
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way
Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?
If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?
On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <stanowskimariusz at wp.pl<mailto:stanowskimariusz at wp.pl>> wrote:
Hello,
I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.
Information is anything that can be distinguish in any way (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
Examples of information:
Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)
Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)
Information as an object - a stone
Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness
Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure
Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros. Structures in our mind are also equipped with energy.
Best regards
Mariusz Stanowski
W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch<mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> pisze:
Dear All,
The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.
The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.
In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.
This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics.
Thank you and best wishes,
Joseph
----Original Message----
>From : lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)
To : fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>, loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>, howlbloom at aol.com<mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Thank you, Howard.
Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.
In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.
Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)
________________________________
From: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com><mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>
Sent: 24 January 2023 08:21
To: lidinkl at hotmail.com<mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com> <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>; fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; loet at leydesdorff.net<mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net> <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret.
the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.
with warmth and oomph--howard
-----Original Message-----
From: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com><mailto:lidinkl at hotmail.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>; Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. Topoi 35, 157–159 (2016). https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-TttIM3_Q$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$>
________________________________
From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net><mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>
Sent: 23 January 2023 23:29
To: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> <fis at listas.unizar.es><mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:
1.1. Information
Consider an event E with probability p; the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that E in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?
Information
Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that p is close to 1 (e.g., p = .95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that E would take place. But suppose that p = .01, so that it is almost certain E will not occur. If E nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.
These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability p that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a decreasing function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is when the probability prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).
The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log 2 2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short, bits. When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a nit.
best, loet
_______________
Loet Leydesdorff
"The Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$>(Open Access)
Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
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trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U8xhJ_S37l_DD7f0onfU3tgJuvratCNVtKoDdtZVYKdPzQsmdlapZbbJMgDxMvUljEdOydXNMW-T0IzdLs0$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIi5mKNcrg$>
Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),
The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),
The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and
Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.
A Quartz Magazine Pro
Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space University Senior Scholar.
Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.
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