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Thank you, Howard. I completely agree with your thesis that the very concept of information quality (closely related to the concept of meaning) arises only in the situation of understanding (using) information and therefore is subjective.</div>
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<div class="ContentPasted0">I use the following definition of information:</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof">information is a structural aspect of the existence of matter.</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof"><br>
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<div class="ContentPasted0">We know three aspects of the existence of matter.</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0">Substance is an aspect reflecting the property of matter to be unchangeable.</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0">Energy is an aspect reflecting the tendency of matter to move (change).</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof">Information is an aspect reflecting the ability of matter to have structure.
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<div class="ContentPasted0">These aspects do not exist in isolation. They continuously pass into each other. But the transition coefficients between them are extremely large. For the transition of matter into energy, the transition coefficient has the dimensions
of the square of the speed of light. For the transition of energy into information, this is the Boltzmann constant.
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<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof">Thus, the transition coefficient between matter and information has the size of an unimaginable 10^40</div>
<div class="ContentPasted0">A living being, and especially a person from the point of view of matter, does not look too solid - it's basically a few buckets of dirty water and a bag of calcium phosphate.
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<div class="ContentPasted0">In terms of energy, we are also small (power is about 0.1 horsepower).
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<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof">But in the aspect of information, a person is a huge object of the order of zettabytes in size. Such a significant information "clot" is associated with all other information in the surrounding space.
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<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof"><br>
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<div class="ContentPasted0">Meaning (signal, relevant information) this is the part of the information coming from the surrounding space that can be included in the recipient's internal information structure.
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<div class="ContentPasted0 elementToProof">For example, if you know Chinese, then writing in hieroglyphs is full of meaning for you. If you don't read hieroglyphs, this information makes no sense to you and looks like noise.
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I've been using this definition for many years now, and I like it.</div>
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Konstantin<br>
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<div id="divRplyFwdMsg" dir="ltr"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" style="font-size:11pt" color="#000000"><b>From:</b> Fis <fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Howard Bloom <howlbloom@aol.com><br>
<b>Sent:</b> 25 January 2023 07:37<br>
<b>To:</b> dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com <dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com>; fis@listas.unizar.es <fis@listas.unizar.es><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
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<div>information is about stimulus and response. information is what a recipient can interpret by turning into action. </div>
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<div>quarks act on the information from other quarks by fleeing or flying into each others' arms. stimulus and response.<br>
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the <b>quality</b> of information is in the capacity of the receiver.
<div><br>
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<div>for example, starlight fell on earth for billions of years without being interpreted and turned into action by any living or non-living things. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>then came birds and other animals who used stars for guidance in their migrations. the starlight didn't change. but the quality of interpretation changed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>then came human astrologers and astronomers and, once again, the starlight didn't change. but the interpretations of that information rocketed in "quality."</div>
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<div>with warmth and oomph--howard<br>
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com><br>
To: fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?<br>
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> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way</div>
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Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?</div>
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If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?</div>
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<div dir="ltr" class="x_yiv6244321141gmail_attr">On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:stanowskimariusz@wp.pl">stanowskimariusz@wp.pl</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<div>Hello,</div>
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I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and
comments.</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
<b>Information is anything that can be distinguish in any way</b> (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Examples of information:</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Information as an object - a stone</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; background-attachment:initial; background-origin:initial; background-clip:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure</div>
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Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros.<span style="font-size:18pt"> </span>Structures in our mind are also equipped with energy.</div>
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Best regards
<div></div>
<div>Mariusz Stanowski</div>
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<div>W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> pisze:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote type="cite">Dear All,
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<div>The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.</div>
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<div>The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.</div>
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<div>In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.</div>
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<div>This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics. </div>
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<div>Thank you and best wishes,</div>
<div>Joseph<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin-right:0px; margin-left:15px">----Original Message----<br clear="none">
>From : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)<br clear="none">
To : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">howlbloom@aol.com</a><br clear="none">
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Thank you, Howard.
<div>Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.</div>
<div>In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals
that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.</div>
<div>Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?</div>
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)<br clear="none">
</div>
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Howard Bloom <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com"><howlbloom@aol.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">lidinkl@hotmail.com</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">loet@leydesdorff.net</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="font-variant-numeric:normal; font-variant-east-asian:normal; font-stretch:normal; font-size:14pt; line-height:normal; font-family:Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">
the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
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<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px; border:none; padding:0px">information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret.</blockquote>
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<div>the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons
and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.</div>
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<div>with warmth and oomph--howard<br clear="none">
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<div><font style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: konstantin lidin <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com"><lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br clear="none">
To: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>;
Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</font>
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt">Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient,
this definition does not work.
<div>The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used</div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. <i>Topoi</i> <b>35</b>, 157–159 (2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yiv5273111498LPlnk776559" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$">https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a><br clear="none">
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fis <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es"><fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> on
behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net"><loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:</div>
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<div style="margin-top:14.65pt; line-height:14.4pt; vertical-align:baseline"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">1.1. </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">Information</span></i></b></div>
<div style="margin-top:9.2pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-align:justify; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.1pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt">Consider an event <i>E </i>with probability <i>p; </i>the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that <i>E </i>in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure
the amount of information conveyed by this message?</span></div>
<div style="margin-top:7.3pt; line-height:11.65pt; vertical-align:baseline"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.35pt">Information</span></i></div>
<div style="margin-top:6.45pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.85pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.1pt">Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that <i>p </i>is close to 1 (e.g., <i>p = </i>.95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information,
because it was virtually certain that <i>E w</i>ould take place. But suppose that <i>p = .01, </i>so that it is almost certain <i>E </i>will not occur. If <i>E </i>nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great
deal of information.</span></div>
</div>
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</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt">These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability </span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">p </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">that prevailed before or
to the arrival of the message, we should select a </span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">decreasing </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is </span> <span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">when the probability
prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log</span> <span style="font-family:New; font-size:7pt"><sub>2</sub></span> <span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">2
= 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short, </span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">bits. </span></i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is
a </span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">nit. </span></i></div>
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</span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">best, loet</span></i></div>
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</span></i></div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt">_______________</font></b></div>
<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt">Loet Leydesdorff</font></b></div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$">"The
Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"</a>(Open Access)</font></b></div>
</div>
<div style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam </font></div>
<div style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</font></div>
<div style="line-height:normal"><font face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" title="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net" style="text-decoration-line:underline; color:blue">loet@leydesdorff.net </a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.leydesdorff.net/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLGpM1vg4$" title="http://www.leydesdorff.net/">http://www.leydesdorff.net/</a></font></div>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">__________________________</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Howard Bloom</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Howardbloom.net</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.howardbloom.institute__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIiH-Gj5ho$">www.howardbloom.institute</a></font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Tpag3KoyVBTYFmRC_S68cEwcSi0ATPLOm2w3nZyWcoVHrX7gRvMJvrxjco3GXYAurl7cvBFKQpIi5mKNcrg$">https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ </a></font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo,
Vudu, and Fandango.</font></div>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), </font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic), </font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson
and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">A Quartz Magazine Pro</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space University
Senior Scholar.</font></div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</font></div>
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<blockquote style="border-left:2px solid blue; padding-left:3px">
<div>
<div>information is about stimulus and response. information is what a recipient can interpret by turning into action. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>quarks act on the information from other quarks by fleeing or flying into each others' arms.<br>
</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
the quality of information is in the capacity of the receiver.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>for example, starlight fell on earth for billions of years without being interpreted and turned into action by any living or non-living things. </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>then came birds and other animals who used stars for guidance in their migrations. the starlight didn't change. but the quality of information interpretation changed.</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>then came human astrologers and astronomers and, once again, the starlight didn't change. but the interpretations of that information rocketed in "quality."</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:18.6667px">with warmth and oomph--howard</span><br>
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<div><br>
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<div><br>
<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt; color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com><br>
To: fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?<br>
<br>
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<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?</div>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141yqt65375" class="x_yiv6244321141yqt1968880211">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_yiv6244321141gmail_attr">On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:stanowskimariusz@wp.pl">stanowskimariusz@wp.pl</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote class="x_yiv6244321141gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Hello,</div>
<div></div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including
ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> </span><b>I<span>nformation is anything that can be distinguish in any way</span></b><span> (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> Examples of information:</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as an object - a stone
</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros.</span><span style="font-size:18pt; color:black">
</span><span style="color:black">Structures </span><span>in our mind are also equipped with energy.</span></div>
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Best regards
<div></div>
<div>Mariusz Stanowski</div>
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<div>W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">
joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> pisze:<br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">Dear All,
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.</div>
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<div>In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.</div>
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<div>This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics. </div>
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<div>Thank you and best wishes,</div>
<div>Joseph<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin-right:0px; margin-left:15px">----Original Message----<br clear="none">
>From : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
lidinkl@hotmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)<br clear="none">
To : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
loet@leydesdorff.net</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">
howlbloom@aol.com</a><br clear="none">
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Thank you, Howard.
<div>Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.
</div>
<div>In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals
that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information. </div>
<div>Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will? </div>
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived) <br clear="none">
</div>
<hr style="display:inline-block; width:98%">
<div dir="ltr" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Howard Bloom
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">
<howlbloom@aol.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
lidinkl@hotmail.com</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
loet@leydesdorff.net</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:black; font:14pt Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div>information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret. </div>
</blockquote>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div>the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons
and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.
</div>
<div><br clear="none">
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:18.6667px">with warmth and oomph--howard</span> <br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div><font size="2" style="color:black; font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: konstantin lidin <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br clear="none">
To: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
<div>The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used
</div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. <i>Topoi</i>
<b>35</b>, 157–159 (2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yiv5273111498LPlnk776559" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$">
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a> <br clear="none">
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fis
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">
<fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div>Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2: </div>
<div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yiv5273111498x_xffee1d4888fa460cb226666f8b0a0764" style="">
<div style="margin-top:14.65pt; line-height:14.4pt; vertical-align:baseline"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">1.1.
</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">Information</span></i></b>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:9.2pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-align:justify; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.1pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt">Consider an event <i>E </i>with probability <i>p; </i>
the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that
<i>E </i>in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?</span>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:7.3pt; line-height:11.65pt; vertical-align:baseline"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.35pt">Information</span></i>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:6.45pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.85pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.1pt">Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that
<i>p </i>is close to 1 (e.g., <i>p = </i>.95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that
<i>E w</i>ould take place. But suppose that <i>p = .01, </i>so that it is almost certain
<i>E </i>will not occur. If <i>E </i>nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.</span>
</div>
</div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt">These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">p </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">decreasing </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is </span>
<span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">when the probability prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).</span>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log</span>
<span style="font-family:New; font-size:7pt"><sub>2</sub></span> <span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">
2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short,
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">bits. </span></i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">nit. </span></i> </div>
</div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></i></div>
<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">best, loet</span></i> </div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt">_______________</font></b>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt">Loet Leydesdorff</font></b>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$">"The
Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"</a>(Open Access)</font></b> </div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam </font>
</div>
<div style="line-height:normal"><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</font>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><font style="font-size:8pt"><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">ORCID:
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom,
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<div style="font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt; color:black"><font size="2">-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Dai Griffiths <dai.griffiths.1@gmail.com><br>
To: fis@listas.unizar.es<br>
Sent: Tue, Jan 24, 2023 5:39 pm<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?<br>
<br>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141">
<div>
<div dir="ltr">
<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
> Information is anything that can be distinguished in any way</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
Is there anything that exists that cannot be distinguished in any way?</div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background-image:initial; background-position:initial; background-size:initial; background-repeat:initial; vertical-align:baseline">
If not, what is the discriminatory power of this definition?</div>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141yqt65375" class="x_yiv6244321141yqt1968880211">
<div dir="ltr" class="x_yiv6244321141gmail_attr">On Tue, 24 Jan 2023 at 14:00, Mariusz Stanowski <<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:stanowskimariusz@wp.pl">stanowskimariusz@wp.pl</a>> wrote:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote class="x_yiv6244321141gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204); padding-left:1ex">
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<div>Hello,</div>
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<blockquote type="cite">
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions and understandings of information, including
ontological and epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and comments.</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> </span><b>I<span>nformation is anything that can be distinguish in any way</span></b><span> (both in and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent way).
</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> Examples of information:</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as an object - a stone
</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span>Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a binary structure</span></div>
<div style="line-height:normal; background:white; vertical-align:baseline"><span> Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence - zeros.</span><span style="font-size:18pt; color:black">
</span><span style="color:black">Structures </span><span>in our mind are also equipped with energy.</span></div>
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Best regards
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<div>Mariusz Stanowski</div>
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<div>W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">
joe.brenner@bluewin.ch</a> pisze:<br clear="none">
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<blockquote type="cite">Dear All,
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<div>The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary extension introduces the question of quality.</div>
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<div>The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and objective and 2) of their total separation.</div>
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<div>In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise, relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.</div>
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<div>This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the basic physics. </div>
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<div>Thank you and best wishes,</div>
<div>Joseph<br clear="none">
<blockquote style="margin-right:0px; margin-left:15px">----Original Message----<br clear="none">
>From : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
lidinkl@hotmail.com</a><br clear="none">
Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)<br clear="none">
To : <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
loet@leydesdorff.net</a>, <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">
howlbloom@aol.com</a><br clear="none">
Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Thank you, Howard.
<div>Your definition of information practically coincides with Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles act as inductors and recipients.
</div>
<div>In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals
that the inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information. </div>
<div>Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will? </div>
This is a very important question, because in most areas, except for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the same way
the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived) <br clear="none">
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<div dir="ltr" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996divRplyFwdMsg"><font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Howard Bloom
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:howlbloom@aol.com">
<howlbloom@aol.com></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 24 January 2023 08:21<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
lidinkl@hotmail.com</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
loet@leydesdorff.net</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
</div>
<div>
<div style="color:black; font:14pt Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates:
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<blockquote style="margin:0px 0px 0px 40px; border:none; padding:0px">
<div>information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can interpret. </div>
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<div>the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons
and neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in proton-neutron teams.
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<div><span style="font-size:18.6667px">with warmth and oomph--howard</span> <br clear="none">
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<div><font size="2" style="color:black; font-family:arial,helvetica; font-size:10pt">-----Original Message-----<br clear="none">
From: konstantin lidin <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:lidinkl@hotmail.com">
<lidinkl@hotmail.com></a><br clear="none">
To: <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm<br clear="none">
Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?<br clear="none">
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<div style="font-family:Calibri,Helvetica,sans-serif; font-size:12pt; color:rgb(0,0,0); background-color:rgb(255,255,255)">
Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this definition does not work.
<div>The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of information admit that there is still no general definition. The concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly and cannot be combined into something commonly used
</div>
Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of Information. <i>Topoi</i>
<b>35</b>, 157–159 (2016). <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yiv5273111498LPlnk776559" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$">
https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7</a> <br clear="none">
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<font face="Calibri, sans-serif" color="#000000" style="font-size:11pt"><b>From:</b> Fis
<a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es">
<fis-bounces@listas.unizar.es></a> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:loet@leydesdorff.net">
<loet@leydesdorff.net></a><br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 23 January 2023 23:29<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> <a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">
<fis@listas.unizar.es></a><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?</font>
<div> </div>
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<div>
<div>Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2: </div>
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<div style="margin-top:14.65pt; line-height:14.4pt; vertical-align:baseline"><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">1.1.
</span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-size:9.5pt; letter-spacing:0.45pt">Information</span></i></b>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:9.2pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-align:justify; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.1pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt">Consider an event <i>E </i>with probability <i>p; </i>
the nature of the event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable message stating that
<i>E </i>in fact occurred. The question is: How should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this message?</span>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:7.3pt; line-height:11.65pt; vertical-align:baseline"><i><span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.35pt">Information</span></i>
</div>
<div style="margin-top:6.45pt; margin-right:0.05in; text-indent:0.1in; line-height:12.85pt; vertical-align:baseline">
<span style="font-size:10.5pt; letter-spacing:-0.1pt">Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an intuitive manner. Suppose that
<i>p </i>is close to 1 (e.g., <i>p = </i>.95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little information, because it was virtually certain that
<i>E w</i>ould take place. But suppose that <i>p = .01, </i>so that it is almost certain
<i>E </i>will not occur. If <i>E </i>nevertheless does occur, the message stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of information.</span>
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<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-size:10.5pt">These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the information derived from a message in terms of the probability
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">p </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we should select a
</span><i style="font-size:10.5pt">decreasing </i><span style="font-size:10.5pt">function. The function proposed by SHANNON (1948) is </span>
<span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">when the probability prior to the message is zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).</span>
</div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt"><br clear="none">
</span></div>
<div><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">The unit of information is determined by the base of the logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log</span>
<span style="font-family:New; font-size:7pt"><sub>2</sub></span> <span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">
2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary digits or, for short,
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">bits. </span></i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">When natural logarithms are used, the information unit is a
</span><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">nit. </span></i> </div>
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<div><i><span style="font-family:New; font-size:10pt">best, loet</span></i> </div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt">Loet Leydesdorff</font></b>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><b><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:9pt"><a rel="nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!UCpI3A8EWvaVDmOuc9hvIQ63G4mDCTSSAo-msd5Fp1s28PF75NWu969e_W5KiezGFeMPMGFtXsQLLuhNS00$">"The
Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"</a>(Open Access)</font></b> </div>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam </font>
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<div style="line-height:normal"><font size="1" face="Times New Roman" style="font-size:8pt">Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)</font>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film, The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom,
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),</font>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), and</font>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson
and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.</font> </div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">A Quartz Magazine Pro</font>
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<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space University
Senior Scholar.</font> </div>
<div id="x_yiv6244321141m_5096662293952895996x_yqt56984"><font size="2" face="arial, helvetica">Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee. Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.</font>
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