[Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972) derived from Shannon (1948); back to the basics?
Mariusz Stanowski
stanowskimariusz at wp.pl
Tue Jan 24 14:00:25 CET 2023
Hello,
> I would like to take the opportunity to share a definition of
> information that is general enough to reconcile existing definitions
> and understandings of information, including ontological and
> epistemological information. I would appreciate Your questions and
> comments.
>
> *Information is anything that can be distinguish in any way*(both in
> and out of the mind and also in a mind-dependent and mind-independent
> way).
>
> Examples of information:
>
> Information as a feature - size (e.g. of a tree)
>
> Information as form - shape (e.g. of a stone)
>
> Information as an object - a stone
>
> Information as an abstract concept - e.g. whiteness
>
> Information as structure - e.g. any distinguishable regularity in a
> binary structure
>
> Any information interacts, so it must have energy. E.g. a binary
> structure must have ones-impulses of energy and their absence -
> zeros.Structures in our mind are also equipped with energy.
>
>
Best regards
Mariusz Stanowski
W dniu 24.01.2023 o 10:59, joe.brenner at bluewin.ch pisze:
> Dear All,
>
> The last two messages, taken together, make a lot of sense: Howard's
> definition has the merit of simplicity, and Konstantin's necessary
> extension introduces the question of quality.
>
> The only way I have found to answer it is to relax several abusive
> absolute dichotomies, in particular, that between 1) subjective and
> objective and 2) of their total separation.
>
> In any specific case, I assume that the terms differ in degree of
> actuality and potentiality, not only, say, information and noise,
> relevancy and non-relevancy and similar pairs.
>
> This approach excludes, however, talking about information at the
> level of quarks and their "associations" since nothing is added to the
> basic physics.
>
> Thank you and best wishes,
> Joseph
>
> ----Original Message----
> From : lidinkl at hotmail.com
> Date : 24/01/2023 - 08:33 (E)
> To : fis at listas.unizar.es, loet at leydesdorff.net, howlbloom at aol.com
> Subject : Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972)
> derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
>
> Thank you, Howard.
> Your definition of information practically coincides with
> Shannon's definition, only elementary (sub-elementary) particles
> act as inductors and recipients.
> In the next step, however, this approach leads us to the notion of
> information quality. A message can contain both a signal (relevant
> information) and noise. But the notion of relevance of information
> is subjective. Relevance is compliance with the goals that the
> inductor-recipient pair sets when exchanging information.
> Do you think quarks and protons have goals and free will?
> This is a very important question, because in most areas, except
> for the Shannon theory of communication, the quality of
> information is ignored. The subjectivity of this parameter looks
> too shocking to include it in a decent academic model (about the
> same way the Heisenberg uncertainty principle is still perceived)
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>
> *Sent:* 24 January 2023 08:21
> *To:* lidinkl at hotmail.com <lidinkl at hotmail.com>;
> fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es>; loet at leydesdorff.net
> <loet at leydesdorff.net>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972)
> derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
> the definition of information in my book The God Problem: How a
> Godless Cosmos Creates:
>
> information is anything a sender emits that a receiver can
> interpret.
>
>
> the first information appears when the first quarks emerge in the
> first 10-34 of a second of the big bang. quarks read each other's
> social signals of attraction or repulsion and acted on them to
> gang up in groups of two or three, thus forming protons and
> neutrons, which also gave off social signals and agglomerated in
> proton-neutron teams.
>
> with warmth and oomph--howard
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: konstantin lidin <lidinkl at hotmail.com>
> To: fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es>; Loet Leydesdorff
> <loet at leydesdorff.net>
> Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2023 1:31 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972)
> derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
>
> Unfortunately, Shannon's definition can only be used in a very
> narrow class of cases. When we consider any process other than the
> transmission of a message from the inductor to the recipient, this
> definition does not work.
> The most authoritative researchers of the philosophy of
> information admit that there is still no general definition. The
> concepts of information in different spheres differ significantly
> and cannot be combined into something commonly used
> Baumgaertner, B., Floridi, L. Introduction: The Philosophy of
> Information. /Topoi/ *35*, 157–159 (2016).
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Ti86Yl43IeD1E9HU7CvRnJAQCbeAGNaJBLq8gucY4ZMGNJbdrm-cebGglYD8dRsQOo8DGHS4dp0LDpcE6eIVjpGe2Oj6$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://doi.org/10.1007/s11245-016-9370-7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!SXg13tbkdIexlHicpgmmFoFwIcpgeHl3c2rgtD9HsQHuKRQodSQhjWMYAL-3r-YyBOXRc3vMzQUkPXSVFHs$>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Loet
> Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net>
> *Sent:* 23 January 2023 23:29
> *To:* fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* [Fis] definitions of information by Theil (1972)
> derived from Shnnon (1948); back to the basics?
> Theil (1972) pp. 1 and 2:
> */1.1. /* */Information/*
> Consider an event /E /with probability /p; / the nature of the
> event is irrelevant. At some point in time we receive a reliable
> message stating that /E /in fact occurred. The question is: How
> should one measure the amount of information conveyed by this
> message?
> /Information/
> Since the question is vague, we shall try to answer it in an
> intuitive manner. Suppose that /p /is close to 1 (e.g., /p =
> /.95). Then, one may argue, the message conveys very little
> information, because it was virtually certain that /E w/ould take
> place. But suppose that /p = .01, /so that it is almost certain /E
> /will not occur. If /E /nevertheless does occur, the message
> stating this will be unexpected and hence contains a great deal of
> information.
>
> These intuitive ideas suggest that, if we want to measure the
> information derived from a message in terms of the probability /p
> / that prevailed before or to the arrival of the message, we
> should select a /decreasing / function. The function proposed by
> SHANNON (1948) is when the probability prior to the message is
> zero) to 0 (zero information when the probability is one).
>
> The unit of information is determined by the base of the
> logarithm. Frequently 2 is used as a base, which implies that any
> message concerning a 50-50 event has unit information: h() = log
> _2 2 = 1, and information is then said to be measured in binary
> digits or, for short, /bits. / When natural logarithms are used,
> the information unit is a /nit. /
> /
> /
> /best, loet/
> /
> /
> *_______________*
> *Loet Leydesdorff*
> *
> *
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