[Fis] THE ROOTS OF MODERN CIVILISATION--Some More Old Roots
Pedro C. Marijuán
pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com
Sat Jan 21 13:55:11 CET 2023
Dear Plamen and colleagues,
I was pondering on the complexity of the ongoing discussion. We have
introduced historical, systemic, and formal considerations in different
combinations. So, the thread has become pretty labyrinthine --but
useful, I think. A couple of further brief comments to enter:
Monasteries were great--for their time. They were the tool that achieved
an enormous extension of collective thinking across Western and Eastern
Europe. Great stories about monks and nuns traveling from an extreme of
Europe to the other, from abbey to abbey, abound (was ever German nun
Hrosvitha in Muslim Cordova learning about Islamic achievements--I have
seen contradictory versions about that). But societies turned their
backs on the monastic system, and universities took their turn as
essential collective thinking tools, say, until our times. Our societies
have arrived to their incredible complexity thanks to science and
technology (institutionalized, but developed in quite many other places
as well). The central question is, Has the present established system of
knowledge also arrived to its limits? Is it actually unable to solve the
problems it has --directly or indirectly-- created? See the Davos' guys
recipes for the future...
And the second comment, really brief-- Are some of these most pressing
problems related to "information"?
Best regards,
--Pedro
El 18/01/2023 a las 11:38, Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov escribió:
> Thank you Joseph, Francesco and Guy!
>
> So education with response-ability is the answer that we more or less
> what we all in this forum try to address the crises that humanity
> faces today with a sight back in the past and forth into the stars
> with concerns about the future of our species. Are not these changes
> happening at a pace so quickly now, not comparable with familiar
> evolutionary agents (incl. viruses and climate changes) that our
> bodies have overcome and adapted to successfully over generations so
> far? Our modern era deals with myriads of external agents
> simultaneously incl. EMF and insufficiently tested genetic therapy
> medications which directly affect our human nature that has slowly
> evolved over millions of years.
>
> Guy’s response which I forwarded to the FIS forum earlier makes an
> interesting bow and brings us back to theBible story about the tree of
> knowledge with its forbidden fruits that made us recognize good and
> evil - the nucleus of the atom, that was called so to remain
> indivisible, and the nucleus of the living cell.„Don’t touch the
> running system,” a computer guy and a car mechanic told me a long time
> ago.
>
> Who knows how many civilizations before us were destroyed by their
> curiosity? We have created many tech menaces without knowing the real
> hazards they hide. Now, LTE/6G wireless tech is planned for 2030 when
> human beings are going to become walking antennas and batteries like
> in the movie „The Matrix“. But we already know that radiation from 3G
> mobile phones kills stem cells in the bone marrow when carried in the
> pockets and generates tumors in the brain when talking as usual. Why
> do we do that? Why did we get used to technology that is not safe
> (enough)? It is human nature to be be curious and adventurous. What if
> this disappears?
>
> Early this morning two thoughts popped up in my mind. Who makes this
> happen? You might have experienced this phenomenon earlier. Suddenly,
> a stream of clear messages pours into your conscious mind. Did anybody
> open a channel? I don’t know. I woke up and began pondering on them.
>
> The first thought was about the Book of John/Revelation which tells us
> how the journey ends. This could be a bifurcation point where we could
> deepen the discussion about whole teachings as archetypes and the
> legacy of Christianity in the modern world. The second thought was
> about the possibly unnecessary worries we have with the (imposed
> (artificial)) crises, -- “polycrises” as Klaus Schwab explains us in
> his stereotype prophecies from Davos, -- we try to find a way out
> right now. Two weeks ago, I met one of you by coincidence led by
> unknown forces/circumstances. This happened to be someone who has come
> to the same solution I had (been poured with?) probably simultaneously
> with me, but came much further than I in its realization, because he
> did not discourage himself as I did. I hope that he will present us
> with this idea during our discussion; he is invited to join us. We can
> only wait. Yet, even if this does not happen, here is the
> conclusion/hypothesis/lesson I draw at that moment:
>
> /Changes to remove the problems are already happening. Ideas are
> popping up in many minds simultaneously and solutions are on the way.
> Instead, we probably discuss in vain something like trying to explain
> QM in terms of classical mechanics. Yet, this discussion is still part
> of the action (potential) required to be discharged to make the
> necessary changes happen and everything that happened in the past in
> our shared universe was right and had to be so. What do you think?/
>
> What were people doing in tough times before us? They prayed alone or
> in groups to God, the angels, and the saints, -- not necessary in a
> church, but anywhere, -- and this made them confident that they will
> be heard and that help will come. They believed that the mere act of
> praying is already fighting for them and for the positive outcome of
> the situation. What made them trust in the power of prayer, not only
> in Christianity, but in indigenous cultures as well? Did someone come
> behind the Global Consciousness project of Roger NelsonI mentioned
> earlier (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMNRdQE2g$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://noosphere.princeton.edu__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMNRdQE2g$ >)? It is probably not a coincidence
> that Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, a Jesuit monk and scientist like
> Rudjer Boskovic, also a Jesuit monk and scientist who discovered the
> (EM) wave theory 100+ years before Faraday and Maxwell, is the author
> of the Noösphere idea mentioned earlier in this forum.
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMDT5WERC$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://teilhard.com/2013/08/13/the-noosphere-part-i-teilhard-de-chardins-vision/__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMDT5WERC$ >
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMInqidjK$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.organism.earth/library/document/formation-of-the-noosphere__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMInqidjK$ >
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMHb9jFmS$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-84570-4_7__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMHb9jFmS$ >
>
> Maybe we need this kind of unstoppable unifying curiosity, trust and
> love for all human beings.
>
> Here below is the kind of work we can embrace for a new beginning
> within this circle.
>
> This workshop invitation from Marcin Schroeder made my day early this
> morning, a lucky synchronicity in my view.
>
> I share it with those who might be interested to attend this event, if
> he has not done this already.
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> *14**th **INTERNATIONAL WORKSHOP ON NATURAL COMPUTING at TOHOKU
> UNIVERSITY, SENDAI, JAPAN*
>
> *January 20-22, 2023*
>
> *
> *
>
> *All presentations, talks, and discussions are in Room 115, Global
> Learning Center, Building A12 on Kawauchi Campus (North) of Tohoku
> University (*entrance to A12 is about 50 meters SW (up the hill) from
> Kawauchi Subway Station – easy-to-spot a white vending machine with
> the name KIRIN next to the entrance). All sessions will be accessible
> via ZOOM sessions. Please feel free to share the invitation link with
> your friends who are interested in the subject.
>
> *For those who will participate via ZOOM:*
>
> Zoom Meeting Link
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMH1NgSo8$
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://zoom.us/j/93925762089?pwd=NExRSmhTR3NhQmI3L0dlOHVORlZFUT09__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!VeZo4Bj3klxGIzKA14ZBvhJrtvC_aqwxFFq2H8W0kXLFdIxbyUBsrpyFz8IRBlXTEV200F27VlwIidbxWKOzMH1NgSo8$ >
> Meeting ID: 939 2576 2089 Passcode: 220105
>
> *PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SHARE THE PROGRAM, LINK, ETC WITH YOUR FRIENDS
> AND COLLEAGUES*
>
>
> ++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> Best,
>
>
> Plamen
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 10:28 AM joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch
> <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>> wrote:
>
> To : plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com <mailto:plamen.l.simeonov at gmail.com>
> Cc : joe.brenner at bluewin.ch <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>,
> ghatchard at gmail.com <mailto:ghatchard at gmail.com>,
> fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>,
> pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com <mailto:pedroc.marijuan at gmail.com>,
> heiko at pax-terra-musica.de <mailto:heiko at pax-terra-musica.de>,
> bruno.marchal at insas.be <mailto:bruno.marchal at insas.be>,
> dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com <mailto:dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com>
>
> Thank you, Plamen. The tradition in which Nagarjuna worked goes
> back another 700 years or so till the time of Buddha if not
> earlier: real “roots”!
>
> Now, Francesco wrote that 1) “Only information measured
> (measurable) in bits of entropy can be traced back to to
> Aristotelian-binary logic.
>
> And 2) There is no information that is not understood in a
> contradictory-probabilistic way. So complexity has an inherent
> limitation that implies the need for selection, contingency and
> risk.” These statements are necessary but for me insufficient,
> since the proper way in which the need can be approached in logic,
> for example by the non-semantic Lupasco system, is not spelled out.
>
> Plamen asked: “But how can we achieve such a giant change in all
> human thinking? Perhaps the only way to do this is genetic editing
> as the transhumanists promote. But what is the price of such fast
> evolution and do we want this?”
>
> My answer, in agreement with Guy, is absolutely not! This would be
> a step backward to a /Deus ex machina/ “solution”. For me the only
> way is to deepen the connection between science, in particular
> information and cognitive science and a logic that expresses the
> core of the Eastern insights, without the need for /any /theology.
>
> Thank you and best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
>
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