[Fis] How Molecules Became Signs
Loet Leydesdorff
loet at leydesdorff.net
Fri Feb 25 11:52:40 CET 2022
Dear Terry, Pedro, and colleagues,
Let me for the sake of the discussion posit the following. Molecules are
structures, and structure is selective and deterministic. Assuming that
we agree that information is a diversity measure, molecules cannot be
both variation and selection (unless we aim at confusion).
In other words, not the molecules, but the configuration of molecules or
their probability distribution contains the information and not the
molecules themselves. I don't see a reason to collapse the two levels.
Information can be expressed in bits; molecules not. In other words,
information can be measured as entropy; Shannon's H is dimensionless; it
is a measure. One can apply this measure to a distribution. The latter
may be a distribution of molecules. The substantive perspective --
different from the formal one of information theory -- can be a biology.
Best, Loet
_______________
Loet Leydesdorff
"The Evolutionary Dynamics of Discusive Knowledge"
<https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-030-59951-5>(Open Access)
Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
loet en leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet en leydesdorff.net>;
http://www.leydesdorff.net/
http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098;
------ Original Message ------
From: "Terrence W. DEACON" <deacon en berkeley.edu>
To: "fis" <fis en listas.unizar.es>
Sent: 2/21/2022 6:01:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] How Molecules Became Signs
>Dear FIS colleagues,
>
>I am grateful to Pedro Marijuán for this opportunity to share this
>recently published Open Access paper with all of you. I look forward to
>this new FIS format for discussing recent publications, in addition to
>the annual solicited discussion paper, and am honored to be included. I
>hope this article is of interest. Here is a brief introduction.
>
>As many scholars since the 1930s have pointed out, the concept of
>information is regularly used in at least three distinct and nested
>senses: a physical-statistical sense, a relational-referential sense,
>and a pragmatic-functional sense. In the paper “How molecules become
>signs” I show how the latter two senses can be understood in terms of
>molecular evolution, without invoking any atypical physical-chemical
>properties or an extrinsic observer perspective. In other words, I
>attempt to identify the minimal systemic properties that are necessary
>and sufficient for a physical system to be able to use a molecule (such
>as RNA) to be “about” the relationships between other molecules that
>are relevant to the continued existence of this same capacity. This is
>intended to provide what amounts to a proof of principle using a
>simple-as-possible model system, in which all processes are explicitly
>known and fully understood, and empirically testable.
>
>It has a number of implications that may be of interest to the FIS
>community.
>
>1. It implies that molecular template replication (such as invoked in
>RNA-world and related replicator-first theories) cannot be understood
>as providing intrinsically referential or functional information,
>except as interpreted by an extrinsic observer (causing its semiotic
>properties to appear epiphenomenal).
>2. It shows how the constraints on the release of energy that
>constitutes the work required to reconstitute these same constraints in
>new substrates is the basis of what can be described as the
>“interpretive” capacity of a physical system.
>3. It demonstrates how materially “displaced” informational
>relationships (such as in the case of DNA) depend on and grow out of
>prior linked mutual information (iconic) and correlational information
>(indexical) relationships, and how this can be hierarchically
>recursive, providing a scaffolding logic for the evolution of
>increasing informational depth.
>4. It suggests that Crick’s so-called “central dogma” of biological
>information flow in organisms is the reverse of information accretion
>in evolution - i.e. where referential-functional information flows from
>dynamical constraints onto material constraints (e.g. molecular
>structure), from whole to part, and thus is offloaded from dynamics to
>structure in evolution. This may suggest new research paradigms for
>studying the evolution of genetic information.
>5. It implicitly describes a mode of autonomous virus-like proto-life
>forms that may exist in conditions that are otherwise hostile to life,
>such as in deep petroleum deposits or other planets.
>
>I look forward to insights and criticisms from the FIS community. The
>target article is also being published with commentaries, along with my
>responses, and the journal may continue to accept commentaries from the
>FIS community to be included in future issues.
>
>Thanks, Terry
>
>In honor of the 80th birthday of our brilliant departed colleague:
>Jesper Hoffmeyer
>
>On Sun, Feb 20, 2022 at 2:38 PM Terrence W. DEACON
><deacon en berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>Dear FIS colleagues,
>>
>>I am grateful to Pedro Marijuán for this opportunity to share this
>>recently published Open Access paper with all of you. I look forward
>>to this new FIS format for discussing recent publications, in addition
>>to the annual solicited discussion paper, and am honored to be
>>included. I hope this article is of interest. Here is a brief
>>introduction.
>>
>>As many scholars since the 1930s have pointed out, the concept of
>>information is regularly used in at least three distinct and nested
>>senses: a physical-statistical sense, a relational-referential sense,
>>and a pragmatic-functional sense. In the paper “How molecules become
>>signs” I show how the latter two senses can be understood in terms of
>>molecular evolution, without invoking any atypical physical-chemical
>>properties or an extrinsic observer perspective. In other words, I
>>attempt to identify the minimal systemic properties that are necessary
>>and sufficient for a physical system to be able to use a molecule
>>(such as RNA) to be “about” the relationships between other molecules
>>that are relevant to the continued existence of this same capacity.
>>This is intended to provide what amounts to a proof of principle using
>>a simple-as-possible model system, in which all processes are
>>explicitly known and fully understood, and empirically testable.
>>
>>It has a number of implications that may be of interest to the FIS
>>community.
>>
>>1. It implies that molecular template replication (such as invoked in
>>RNA-world and related replicator-first theories) cannot be understood
>>as providing intrinsically referential or functional information,
>>except as interpreted by an extrinsic observer (causing its semiotic
>>properties to appear epiphenomenal).
>>2. It shows how the constraints on the release of energy that
>>constitutes the work required to reconstitute these same constraints
>>in new substrates is the basis of what can be described as the
>>“interpretive” capacity of a physical system.
>>3. It demonstrates how materially “displaced” informational
>>relationships (such as in the case of DNA) depend on and grow out of
>>prior linked mutual information (iconic) and correlational information
>>(indexical) relationships, and how this can be hierarchically
>>recursive, providing a scaffolding logic for the evolution of
>>increasing informational depth.
>>4. It suggests that Crick’s so-called “central dogma” of biological
>>information flow in organisms is the reverse of information accretion
>>in evolution - i.e. where referential-functional information flows
>>from dynamical constraints onto material constraints (e.g. molecular
>>structure), from whole to part, and thus is offloaded from dynamics to
>>structure in evolution. This may suggest new research paradigms for
>>studying the evolution of genetic information.
>>5. It implicitly describes a mode of autonomous virus-like proto-life
>>forms that may exist in conditions that are otherwise hostile to life,
>>such as in deep petroleum deposits or other planets.
>>
>>I look forward to insights and criticisms from the FIS community. The
>>target article is also being published with commentaries, along with
>>my responses, and the journal may continue to accept commentaries from
>>the FIS community to be included in future issues.
>>
>>Thanks, Terry
>>
>>On Sat, Feb 19, 2022 at 1:12 PM Pedro C. Marijuán
>><pedroc.marijuan en gmail.com> wrote:
>>>Dear FISers,
>>>
>>>We are going to start the new discussion modality based on specific
>>>publications. The initial contribution to comment is:
>>>
>>>"How Molecules Became Signs." By Terrence W. Deacon, recently
>>>appeared in Biosemiotics.
>>>
>>>At his earlier convenience, Terry will send a leading text to start
>>>the discussion.
>>>Now, given that there is a doi
>>>https://doi.org/10.1007/s12304-021-09453-9 (for freely downloading
>>>the paper),
>>>interested parties may read in advance the publication.
>>>
>>>Best greetings to all,
>>>--Pedro
>>>
>>>PS. Given that there are another three contributions tentatively
>>>arranged, a time span of around 2-3 weeks could be adequate. But we
>>>will see on the spot.
>>>
>>><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>>Libre de virus. www.avast.com
>>><https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>>><#m_-4879470826922797663_m_7595816000984545838_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>>>_______________________________________________
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>>
>>
>>--
>>Professor Terrence W. Deacon
>>University of California, Berkeley
>
>
>--
>Professor Terrence W. Deacon
>University of California, Berkeley
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