[Fis] CODE DISCUSSION

Tue Sep 21 16:07:16 CEST 2021

Dear Colleagues,

The intermission was indeed unusually long this time, but Vivace of the
movement that is beginning now satisfies for the waiting.

Pedro introduces the theme:

Well, I realized that if we compare biological & computer systems with
inanimate systems, codes are one of the most significant differences. Apart
of the genetic code, there are many biological others: metabolic codes,
degradation codes, adhesion codes, histone codes, sugar codes, cytoskeleton
codes, developmental codes, neuronal codes, etc., etc.

*We are discussing what is the meaning of a rule*

Variations on the theme:

It is quite interesting that prokaryotes did develop very few codes and so,
presumably, could not develop their constructive complexity. Something
similar would have occurred in the development of computer architecture
layers, based on increasing codes hierarchically arranged in general.

*Rules have hierarchies*

Countermelody to the theme:

I am not aware of any physical system which had created any kind of code
(except, hypothetically, in the origins of life). Well, symmetry groups in
crystallographic systems could be close, but its constructive complexity is
low, quite "flat", directly dictated by the components...

*Can rules self-develop?*

Joseph picks up the theme:

codes and dynamics co-exist but are of a different nature. Codes describe
the catalysts of change in living systems, but they do not change
themselves without an input of energy/information.

*The rule is not its realisation*

Joseph expands and summarises the theme

Codes and dynamics can be separated physically but not functionally. They
instantiate non-separability as a fundamental principle.

*The rule and its realisation*

Enter Karl with a lengthy coda:

There is a need to reorder (from day/night optimal to tide in/out optimal),
so that element which is the *i-th *in the order Previous will occupy the
place of that which is *r-th* in the order Previous which in turn will
occupy the place of that which is *q-th* in the order Previous which in
turn will occupy … etc etc

This is an elementar, basic, fundamental fact. The fact holds, that if any
reorder from Previous into Present takes place, well-defined and well-named
elements will team up with other well-defined and well-named elements to
build a sequence of replacements. The property can be any, magnetism,
chemical valence or good looks and fine smell. The corresponding mental
pictures can be strings, filaments, force fields, coherence and
predictability. The structure, the web of possibilities is immanent in the
Acervus, our common heritage of indisputable facts, on which we base our
axioms.

*Rules are the part and parcel of changes. See the system in terms of
changes. Which changes are taking place determines which rules apply.*

Karl comes in with supporting rhythm, integrating both themes:

The cycles have a two-fold existence: they are ever-lasting as implications
of the sentence “*A Change from Previous to Present takes place, Aspect X,
stage i”. *As such, this rule has almost as long a shelf life as *a = a,*
because if periodic changes do take place, this specific given choreography
of elements will have to take place in a rational world for any given
periodic change. If a fire drill is executed, it is irrelevant whether the
location is a factory, a bank or an airport. The goal of the previous is to
reach the present in the relevant aspect, and this logistical manoeuvre has
its own rules of which element replaces which other element etc until the
goal is achieved (and such an optimised state is reached as is appropriate
for the actual day/tide combination).

The other kind of existence for a rule is a heroic one. The rule in such
cases presents itself and asserts that it exists. The rule is by no means
eternal, the action is in fact around the plot, how long a rule can hold
itself against the aspirations of other rules.

*Which rules are to be observed comes from which changes take place. One
can influence which changes take place by selectively observing rules.*

Karl gives back to the melodists. The rhythmic interplay has shown that
Pedro’s overture with a lead melody and Joseph’s doing a contrast and
integration on the theme are both converging on the same subject: is there
a way to build a road from the name-giving areas of the brain to the
non-quadrivial areas of the brain?

Am Di., 21. Sept. 2021 um 13:55 Uhr schrieb Pedro C. Marijuan <
pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>:

> Dear FISers!
>
> It is quite a long time without list activity... As you all know, the
> IS4SI 2021 event just took place during last week . Many of FIS parties
> participated, though it was complex to explore all subconference tracks and
> follow them under the ZOOM scheme. It is a new "virtual" regime that the
> pandemics has precipitated--and it will stay... In any case, for those who
> missed the sessions, there will be complete recordings available in due
> time.
>
> Anecdotally, one of the discussion themes, biological & computer codes,
> was raised by me during the final, closing session. I had never thought
> about codes in that way. Joseph made a quick response and sent later a
> message which I paste below. I think continuing as an open discussion could
> be interesting for the list.
>
> Well, I realized that if we compare biological & computer systems with
> inanimate systems, codes are one of the most significant differences. Apart
> of the genetic code, there are many biological others: metabolic codes,
> degradation codes, adhesion codes, histone codes, sugar codes, cytoskeleton
> codes, dvelopmental codes, neuronal codes, etc., etc. It is quite
> interesting that prokaryotes did develop very few codes and so, presumably,
> could not develop their constructive complexity. Something similar would
> have occurred in the development of computer architecture layers, based on
> increasing codes hierarchically arranged in general.
>
> I am not aware of any physical system which had created any kind of code
> (except, hypothetically, in the origins of life). Well, symmetry groups in
> crystallographic systems could be close, but its constructive complexity is
> low, quite "flat", directly dictated by the components...
>
> Are codes really significant for the information realm? Do they represent
> the obligatory way of channeling the inner self-construction (dynamic)
> information flows?
>
> Could there be a deeper discussion on codes?
>
> All the best,
>
> --Pedro
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Dear Pedro and All,
>
> Just as the Conference was closing, Pedro brought out the extremely
> important subject of codes, and the result of my rushed interaction with
> him can be summarized as follows: codes are epistemological; dynamics are
> ontological.
>
> This means that codes and dynamics co-exist but are of a different nature.
> Codes describe the catalysts of change in living systems, but they do not
> change themselves without an input of energy/informatin. The same is true
> of codes in non-living systems, say, inorganic catalysts that degrade over
> time. Computer codes are purely epistemological, as many of you have said
> in other terms.
>
> Codes and dynamics can be separated physically but not functionally. They
> instantiate non-separability as a fundamental principle.
>
> Thanks and to be continued, I hope.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Joseph
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
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