[Fis] [External Email] Re: Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria

[Stanley N Salthe]

Pedro -- Regarding: "What about climatic change, ecological crisis,
resource depletion...? Why aren't we seriously confronting
these challenges yet?"
S: One reason is that these are not easily connected to feasible
technology. What we Do do these days is TECH (only). Perhaps
some genius is budding somewhere with a new mind PLUS the knack for
convincing important others.
STAN

On Wed, Feb 17, 2021 at 3:33 PM Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
wrote:

> Thanks Howard (& Plamen, Krassimir, Karl... and All). Please, consider the
> following two-pronged argument:
>
> Of all species that have existed on Earth, 99.9 percent are now extinct.
> Habitat destruction is the leading cause of endangerment and extinction.
> Introduced species -- those who migrate to a new area -- are the second
> leading cause of endangerment and extinction. You cannot put new species
> together to coexist happily (like hippie communes). So many cases of
> plagues and pathogens that have put other species to the brisk of
> extinction... A few easy cases I directly remember: Dutch elm disease by
> several fungi; Ash dieback by another fungus and a borer insect;
> traditional Grapevine in France, Spain, Italy, etc. in early 20th Century
> exterminated by mildew; the Irish potato blight; Bee hives knocked by
> Verroa destructor and by Asian wasps, Rabbits wiped by Myxomatosis, etc.
> etc.  In general, we call plagues and illnesses to that multitude of
> inter-species nasty encounters.
>
> Establishing a fruitful inter-species coexistence in the form of Symbiosis
> is exceptional and takes a lot of "co-evolutionary work". And perhaps it
> also occurs socially. The great things you correctly describe have been
> accomplished yes, but being accompanied by major social crises and
> upheavals. Even today: the recent ugly events in your country (or the
> calamitous situation of my own country) are not a light reminder of the
> increased destabilization risks we live in. ICTs and AI imply major risks
> of social-economic disarray and discord, and a lot of "social
> intelligentsia" work will be needed to achieve a happier coexistence. The
> problem I see is precisely a parallel decrease of the adaptive "social
> intelligentsia" capability (including science, but not technology). What
> about climatic change, ecological crisis, resource depletion...? Why aren't
> we seriously confronting these challenges yet?
>
> Best--Pedro
>
> El 16/02/2021 a las 0:23, Howard Bloom escribió:
>
> re: This biological argument is based on an exception. For *most *inter-species
> long term evolutionary encounters conduce to... extinction.
>
> pedro, hi,  could you give me some examples of interspecies encounters
> leading to extinction?  to me, that would seem the exception to the rule. a
> cluster of different species living together in an ecological community
> benefit from keeping each other alive.  despite their habit of eating each
> other.
>
> re: Plamen, thanks for the comment.  "I wish we were smart enough to push
> it forward into practice.  Are we?"
>
> hb: we often accomplish miracles with no consciousness of what we've
> done.  I hope that happens here.
>
> examples of material miracles we've made but have failed to plan or see:
>
>
>
> ·        If you’d been born in 1850, your expected lifespan would have
> been 37.5 years.  If you’d been born in the West in 2000, your expected
> lifespan would have been 78.5 years.  Chinese Emperors were willing to
> spend almost all of their wealth to achieve an extra four years of life.
> But Western Civilization has added another 40.  Western civilization has
> more than doubled the human lifespan.  No other civilization in the history
> of the world—not the Chinese, Egyptian, Muslim, Russian Marxist, or
> Roman—has ever pulled this off.
> ·        If you’d been the poorest paid worker in London in 2012, a
> personal assistant, you would have earned what an entire tenement full of
> the poorest paid workers in London were paid in 1850.  You would have
> earned what seven Irish dockworkers made.
> ·        If you gave a bunch of average Western kids today a Stanford
> Binet IQ test from 1900, today’s kids would register as near geniuses.
> They’d register an average IQ of roughly 135.  That’s an IQ Jump of 35
> points.
> ·        If you were in an indigenous culture, one of those tribes that
> “lives in peace and harmony with nature,”  your odds of dying a violent
> death at the hands of a fellow human being would be ten times what they are
> in the West today.  Since 1650, Western Civilization has upped the level of
> peace by a factor of ten.
> ·        If you were born in 2000, your height would have been four
> inches higher than if you’d been born in 1850.
> ·        The Western System has lifted close  to a billion people out of
> poverty in a mere twenty years.[i]
>
> however you are right.  there's always a chance that we could blow it.  or
> that we could built algorithms into military ai that ultimately decide that
> we are the enemy and need to be killed.
>
> with warmth and oomph--howard
>
> ------------------------------
> [i]
> https://www.economist.com/leaders/2013/06/01/towards-the-end-of-poverty
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov <plamen.l.simeonov en gmail.com>
> <plamen.l.simeonov en gmail.com>
> To: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> Cc: fis <fis en listas.unizar.es> <fis en listas.unizar.es>
> Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2021 1:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
>
> I fully agree with you, Pedro, and your note about Michael Conrad.
> Unfortunately, this challenging era we live now is certainly a great
> opportunity, as Howard suggests, but also at least 50% chance to surrender
> to what will come next to replace us as individuals. But I know that Howard
> has another receipt suggesting the development of the global interconnected
> mind (the "Avatar" movie idea) which is a nice goal we can evolve too, but
> from what I have been observing in the world during this pandemic, I
> conclude only that this mind is of a weird and perplexed global being. The
> only hope is that this state of illness will be over within a certain
> period of time.
>
> Great books and a great theory, Howard! I wish we were smart enough to
> push it forward into practice.
> Are we?
>
> Best,
>
> Plamen
>
>
>
> ___ ___ ___
> *Dr. Plamen L. Simeonov*
> Director Integral Biomathics
> *MolBio2Math <http://www.simeio.org/focus/about/molbio2math/>* –
> <http://www.simeio.org/focus/about/molbio2math/>*Molecular
> Biology & Integral Biomathics
> <http://www.simeio.org/focus/about/molbio2math/>*
> a non-profit Foundation Institute
> Arnimallee 22, 14195 Berlin, Germany
>
> phone1: +1 (213) 281-5921
> phone2: +49 173 7816 337
> email: plamen en simeio.org
> URLs: https://www.linkedin.com/in/plamenlsimeonov/
> simeio.org  |  ibiomath.org <http://ibiomath.org/>  |  inbiosa.eu
> <http://inbiosa.eu/> | molbio2math.org <http://www.molbio2math.org/>
> OurWorldInData.org/coronavirus  <https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus>
> https://groups.google.com/d/forum/covid-19-therapy
>
>
> Orcid ID: http://orcid.org/0000-0003-2672-4405
> Scopus Author ID: 7006001629
> ResearcherID: T-4786-2017
>
> DISCLAIMER: This email may contain confidential and/or privileged
> information. If you are not the intended recipient or did receive this
> email in error, please notify the sender immediately and destroy this email
> and possible attachments. Any unauthorized copying, disclosure or
> distribution of the material are strictly forbidden.
>
> HAFTUNGSAUSSCHLUSS: Diese email enthaelt moeglicherweise vertrauliche
> und/oder rechtlich geschuetzte Informationen. Wenn Sie nicht der richtige
> Adressat sind, oder diese email irrtuemlich erhalten haben, informieren Sie
> bitte sofort den Absender und vernichten Sie diese email und die
> moeglicherweise angehaengten Dokumente. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die
> unbefugte Weitergabe sind nicht gestattet.
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 15, 2021 at 7:44 PM Pedro C. Marijuan <
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es> wrote:
>
> Thanks Krassimir, it looks a good idea.
> Those parties sending their abstracts, we should understand, are asking
> for discussion.
> Then, here there are some comments on Howard's.
>
> "What’s more, the cellulose eaters could defecate material that was toast
> with butter and jam to the cockroaches, the perfect food-- sugars and
> short-chain fatty acids..."
> Quite right. Waste of one species becomes excellent food for another. I
> was then reminded Jerry's recent comments on entropy as being somehow
> analogous with  "forms of natural wastes, such as feces, dung, shit,
> urine, etc." Well, it depends. Entropy itself, in Gibbs' free energy,
> becomes a frequent positive contribution to the chemical reaction free
> energy (when there is an entropy increase of products respect reactants).
> And it often helps in enzyme function too (e.g., by entropy change in
> vicinal water that empowers the enzyme for overcoming the activation energy
> barrier). Things in nature usually work in a series of conjugated,
> networked yin-yang relationships--rather than absolutes.
>
> About the substance of the abstract, Who knows? Michel Conrad made a
> curious relationship --tradeoff principle-- between adaptability,
> evolvability, and information processing. An increase of the latter
> diminishes the former. So, we may find less capable people as they rely
> more and more on external algorithms or processing gadgets... is it already
> happening with the current generation, socially less and less adapted
> precisely because of their over-immersion onto "social networks"?
>
> "If all goes well, that will be the relationship of AI and
> humankind—symbiosis. Mutual empowerment." Not necessarily. This biological
> argument is based on an exception. For *most *inter-species long term
> evolutionary encounters conduce to... extinction.
>
> Gloom and Doom!
> --Pedro
>
> El 14/02/2021 a las 16:57, Krassimir Markov escribió:
>
> Dear Howard,
> Thank you for the abstract.
> You are right!
>
> Dear Pedro,
> Maybe it is a good idea to discuss some abstracts in FIS list.
> I think, the moderators of sessions may take a such decision.
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Howard Bloom <howlbloom en aol.com>
> *Sent:* Sunday, February 14, 2021 3:06 AM
> *To:* fis en listas.unizar.es ; pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
> *Subject:* [Fis] Abstract--Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
>
> i've submitted the following abstract to wolfgang hofkirchner for his
> digital humanism section of the conference:
>
>
> Electronic Symbiosis—Lessons from Bacteria
> Howard Bloom
> howlbloom en aol.com
> Author, The Lucifer Principle: a Scientific Expedition into the Forces of
> History
> Chairman, The Howard Bloom Institute
> Founder and co-chair, The Asian Space Technology Summit
> Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York
> University
> Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute, Meriden, Connecticut
>
> Some say that we should not let humanity’s new electronic frontiers
> reshape us. But every time technology has reshaped us, it has upgraded us.
> To see how synergies with electronic systems like artificial intelligence
> can give humanity and humanism new powers, look at how bacteria have gained
> new abilities over the last billion years. They could have anticipated
> being annihilated by the new multicellulars and tried to stop multicellular
> formation. But the multicellulars did not wipe out their single-celled
> forebears. Far from it. They worked out deals with the multi-cellulars. And
> those cooperative arrangements gave both the microbes and the
> multi-cellular beasts whole new powers, whole new ways to make a living.
> Look, for example, at the cockroaches that first showed up on the planet
> 320 million years ago. For 69 million years, the cockroaches were limited
> to easily digestible food. But there was hard stuff all around them
> bursting with nourishment. That oh, too solid stuff was the tree. And there
> was no way that the digestive system of cockroaches could turn bark and
> wood into tasty treats. Then came over 33 species of bacteria and set up
> shop in the cockroach’s guts. Species like Paenibacillus lactis,
> Lysinibacillusmacrolides, and Stenotrophomonas maltophilia.[i]  These
> microbial wonders could eat cellulose, the hard stuff that had previously
> made wood indigestible. What’s more, the cellulose eaters could defecate
> material that was toast with butter and jam to the cockroaches, the perfect
> food-- sugars and short-chain fatty acids. In exchange, the microbes used
> cockroaches as their transport and chewing machines. The cockroaches
> empowered by their bacterial colonists to eat trees took off on an
> evolutionary path of their own. Today we call them termites. And there are
> 2,000 species of them. Which means that once the lowly cockroach allowed
> cellulose-eating bacteria and flagellates to turn its innards into a
> microbial dining hall, the newly empowered cockroaches found 2,000 new ways
> to make a living. So, no, multicellular beings did not wipe out their
> single-celled progenitors. They gave them a rich new home. And they gavet
> he unicellulars breathtaking new abilities. If all goes well, that will be
> the relationship of AI and humankind—symbiosis. Mutual empowerment.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Karl Javorszky <karl.javorszky en gmail.com> <karl.javorszky en gmail.com>
> To: 钟义信 <zyx en bupt.edu.cn> <zyx en bupt.edu.cn>
> Cc: fis <fis en listas.unizar.es> <fis en listas.unizar.es>; Pedro
> <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es> <pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>
> Sent: Fri, Feb 12, 2021 11:15 pm
> Subject: Re: [Fis] 回复： New Year in China
>
> Please resend the 2 papers, as my office software says it doesn't
> recognize the file format used.
> Thanks
> Karl
>
>
> 钟义信 <zyx en bupt.edu.cn> schrieb am Sa., 13. Feb. 2021, 03:29:
>
> Dear Pedro,
>
> Please accept my warm greetings to you for the outstanding contributions
> you made to IS4SI during the past years and also for the Chinese new year..
>
> Here I would send you two documents of the Calls, see attachment, as some
> progresses made by China Chapter for the preparations for IS4SI World
> Summit-2021. I would be very grateful if you could help us by distributing
> the Calls to FISers.
>
> My best regards,
>
> Yixin
>
>
> ------------------ 原始邮件 ------------------
> *发件人:* "Pedro"<pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es>;
> *发送时间:* 2021年2月13日(星期六) 凌晨5:43
> *收件人:* "fis"<fis en listas.unizar.es>;
> *主题:* [Fis] New Year in China
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> With the occasion of the Chinese New Year, let me express our collective
> greetings and best wishes to the FISers there. We badly need good news,
> and at least the celebrations of a New Year bring us some sense of hope
> and forbearance in front of the present difficulties. Probably, when all
> of this recedes, we will be able to make fine discussions about social
> resilience...
>
> All the best
>
> --Pedro
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
> --
> El software de antivirus Avast ha analizado este correo electrónico en
> busca de virus.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIN SOBRE PROTECCIN DE DATOS DE CARCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la informacin sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si est suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicacin en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
>
> __________________________
> Howard Bloom
> Howardbloom.net
> trailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of Howard
> Bloom,  https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ
> Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not
> Film Festival, Italy. Now available  on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play,
> Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
>
> Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces
> of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
> Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st
> Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
> The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A
> tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The
> Atlantic),
> The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock
> your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
> How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!”
> Timothy Leary),
> The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.”
> David Swindle, PJ Media), and
> Einstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search  for Soul in the Power Pits of
> Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager
> of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.
> A Quartz Magazine Pro
> Former Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York
> University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current
> Kepler Space Institute Senior Scholar.
> Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development
> Steering Committee.  Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society.
> Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member,
> The Darwin Project.
> ------------------------------
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACISN SOBRE PROTECCISN DE DATOS DE CARACTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la informacisn sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si esta suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicacisn en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
>
> ------------------------------
> [image: Avast logo] <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
> Този имейл е проверен за вируси от Avast.
> www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>
>
> <https://mail.aol.com/webmail-std/en-us/suite#m_5544572518841635374_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing listFis en listas.unizar.eshttp://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el siguiente enlace: https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> pcmarijuan.iacs en aragon.eshttp://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis en listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> ----------
> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>
> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo gestionada por
> la Universidad de Zaragoza.
> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos en el
> siguiente enlace:
> https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas
> Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de
> baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo desee.
> http://listas.unizar.es
> ----------
>
------------ pr�xima parte ------------
Se ha borrado un adjunto en formato HTML...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20210217/de03e980/attachment-0001.html>