[Fis] Communications theory? Re: Session closing

Thu Feb 4 00:36:23 CET 2021

jerry, thanks for this.
correct me if i'm wrong, but entropy did not give us the steam engine, the steam engine gave us the concept of entropy.  

the steam engine was first patented in 1698.  the concept of entropy was first put forth in 1865.  eight generations later.
so the claims about all the wonders that the concept of entropy has produced are, alas, false.
with warmth and oomph--howard

-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry LR Chandler <jerry_lr_chandler at icloud.com>
To: fis at listas.unizar.es <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Cc: Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>; Pedro Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>; Arieh Ben-Naim <ariehbennaim at gmail.com>
Sent: Wed, Feb 3, 2021 6:22 pm
Subject: Communications theory? Re: [Fis] Session closing

List, Arieh, Howard:  
IMO, This discussion of entropy was accompanied by both gaps and gluts, neither uncommon in such interdisciplinary occasions. 

On Feb 2, 2021, at 9:19 AM, Arieh Ben-Naim <ariehbennaim at gmail.com> wrote:

The blunder is neither the concept of entropy nor the “ theory of entropy” but the way people misused and misinterpreted entropy.

This assertion should be underscored and placed in bold CAPS.
The communications gaps illustrated in this discussion is the gap between dichotomy and dualism; that is, the logic of politics (see Plumwood).
The concept of entropy, as part of the empirical sciences, has played a critical role in the taming of the natural forces and harnessing the flow of work from machines, freeing human energies for other purposes while concomitantly amplifying the natural forces efficiently.  How was this achieved?  By understanding FIRST the mathematics of ideal gas laws with respect to volume, pressure and temperature and then recognizing that   triadic relationships among volume, pressure and temperature could be used to create motion within machines and that this motion could be channeled to useful work.  The concept of entropy was introduced to quantify the inefficiency of the conversion of “energy” into work, that the ideality of gas laws was NOT perfect, but it was very practical.  Work is harvested to create useful benefits designed for human purposes.  Thus, metaphorically, the concept of entropy as NOT useful work, is semantically analogous to other forms of natural wastes, such as feces, dung, shit, urine, etc. 
Thus, the two scientific terms, roughly speaking, work (syntropy) and entropy, are dual terms with respect to useful and useless.
The mathematics of thermodynamics, as Pedro as pointed toward and that is taught in every undergraduate physics and engineering curriculum, necessarily requires a closed system and other terms that relate the forms of energy.  The quantitative theory of TD requires these other conceptual terms in order to make empirical calculations. The glut that I perceive in this discussion is one of the dichotomy of semantic ignorance.  Howard, Stan and others intentionally ignore the bigger mathematical necessities and choose to wander into unrelated territories where other symbolic meanings of these mathematical symbols occur.
The gap in this discussion was and is the ignorance of the role of TD equations in natural material processes that are not necessarily related to the ideal gas laws.  These equations relate energy changes at constant temperature and pressure.  Such equations are based on the law of mass action and relate changes of form to heat production.  The equations are electrically- related equations that change patterns between natural sorts and kinds.  The natural differences drive electromotive forces toward equilibrium.  The five preceding sentences are expressed in physical terminology and refer to chemical changes of reactions and of course, biological catalysis. This gap in understanding of the meaning of a chemical reaction and the change of identity of material forms results in a serious omission.  The omission is the critical role of the mathematics of energy transformations in the maintenance of life, the syntropism of metabolism.  And, of course, the emergence and evolution of life. 
Amazingly, more than five decades have past since I read C. P. Snow’s, The Two Cultures.  While some progress has been made, the gaps and gluts of misrepresentations, misunderstandings and misinformations persist.  The logic of the political-scientific forms of “Long live Trumpisms” appears to be in play.
Cheers
Jerry  

Dear Howard,Although you said that you agree with me, I feel I do not agree, neither with your email, nor with what you wrote on entropy in God Problem.Entropy, is a well defined, well interpreted and very useful quantity in thermodynamics.The blunder is neither the concept of entropy nor the “ theory of entropy” but the way people misused and misinterpreted entropy.In your book you mention “Entropy’s error” and that the “notion of entropy is wrong”I certainly do not agree with you on that.I am now working on a book which tentatively is called “ The Science of God” where I criticize those who use scientific ideas ( including entropy and the second law) in connection with God.All the bestArieh
On Monday, February 1, 2021, Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com> wrote:

Arieh, hi,
i agree completely with your statement that entropy may be the biggest blunder in the history of science.  it may be the piltdown man of modern scientific theory.
for more on why the theory of entropy is radically wrong, see my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates.  
with warmth and oomph--howard

-----Original Message-----
From: Arieh Ben-Naim <ariehbennaim at gmail.com>
To: Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
Cc: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Sent: Sun, Jan 31, 2021 3:00 am
Subject: Re: [Fis] Session closing

Dear All,and special thanks to Pedro.
I do not have any further comments, beyond what I already wrote on entropy and life.
Perhaps I can add one comment, which is irrelevant to misuses of entropy for life.It concerns the misuses of entropy to the entire universe.I believe that entropy is not definable to the entire universe, not in the present, not in the future and not in the past universe.Yet, there are whole books discussing the meaningless “low entropy of the universe, near the Big Bang”I have discussed this topic in great details in my recent book:ENTROPY: The Greatest Blunder in the History of Science.
All the best, keep yourselves happy and healthy,Arieh
On Sat, Jan 30, 2021 at 15:04 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es> wrote:

Dear All,

We are in the last days of January.
It means, unless there is some closing closing comments by our Lecturer, 
the end of the current New Year Lecture.
This has been a nice occasion to share comments on all the abuses and 
misconceptions around Entropy of Life.
Thanks to Arieh and all the participants.
Take a lot of care in these difficult times!!

Best --Pedro

-- 
------------------------------ -------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group

pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/ pedrocmarijuan/
------------------------------ -------------------

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-- 
Prof. Arieh Ben-Naim
Department of Physical Chemistry
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Jerusalem, 91904
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__________________________Howard BloomHowardbloom.nettrailer for BRIC-TV's 66-minute film,The Grand Unified Theory of Howard Bloom,  https://youtu.be/rGkOkChazUQ Best Picture, Science Design Film Festival. Best Documentary Feature, Not Film Festival, Italy. Now available  on Apple TV, Amazon, Google Play, Microsoft, Vimeo, Vudu, and Fandango.
Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post), Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),  The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),How I Accidentally Started the Sixties (“Wow! Whew! Wild! Wonderful!” Timothy Leary),The Mohammed Code (“A terrifying book…the best book I’ve read on Islam.” David Swindle, PJ Media), andEinstein, Michael Jackson & Me: a Search  for Soul in the Power Pits of Rock & Roll ("Amazing. The writing is revelatory." Freddy DeMann, manager of Michael Jackson and Madonna), Best Book of 2020, New York Weekly Times.A Quartz Magazine ProFormer Visiting Scholar, Graduate Psychology Department, New York University, Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Current Kepler Space Institute Senior Scholar.Founder: International Paleopsychology Project. Founder, Space Development Steering Committee.  Member Of Board Of Governors, National Space Society. Founding Board Member: Epic of Evolution Society. Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project.

-- 
Prof. Arieh Ben-Naim
Department of Physical Chemistry
The Hebrew University of Jerusalem
Jerusalem, 91904
Israel
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