[Fis] 10 Principles

Mon Jun 29 18:16:18 CEST 2020

Dear Krassimir, Loet and Bruno,

Previously, I posted links to two recently published papers that might be
of interest. Their titles and abstracts are given below.

They relate to a fundamental perspective on information that points to a
novel generic paradigm of information that treats information as a *secondary
concept* that allows discovery of information as a *primary concept*. I
would even venture to say that it subsumes Shannon information. Its basis
is Bateson’s ‘difference which makes a difference’ allowing the discovery
of the process for information as info-autopoiesis that includes
objective/syntactic and subjective/semantic aspects. I welcome your
engagement with the content of these papers.

*Bateson Information Revisited: A New Paradigm*

*Abstract*: The goal of this work is to explain a novel information
paradigm claiming that all information results from a process, intrinsic to
living beings, of self-production; a sensory commensurable,
self-referential feedback process immanent to Bateson’s difference that
makes a difference. To highlight and illustrate this fundamental process, a
simulation based on one-parameter feedback is presented. It simulates a
homeorhetic process, innate to organisms, illustrating a self-referenced,
autonomous system. The illustrated recursive process is sufficiently
generic to be the only basis for information in nature: from the single
cell, to multi-cellular organisms, to consideration of all types of natural
and non-natural phenomena, including tools and artificial constructions.

The link is: https://www.mdpi.com/2504-3900/47/1/5

*The Process of Info-Autopoiesis – the Source* *of all Information*

*Abstract*: All information results from a process, intrinsic to living
beings, of info-autopoiesis or information self-production; a sensory
commensurable, self-referential feedback process immanent to Bateson’s
‘difference which makes a difference’. To highlight and illustrate the
fundamental nature of the info-autopoietic process, initially, two
simulations based on one-parameter feedback are presented. The first,
simulates a homeostatic control mechanism (thermostat) which is
representative of a mechanistic, cybernetic system with very predictable
dynamics, fully dependent on an external referent. The second, simulates a
homeorhetic process, inherent to biological systems, illustrating a
self-referenced, autonomous system. Further, the active
incorporation/interference of viral particles by prokaryotic cells and the
activation of CRISPR-Cas can be understood as info-autopoiesis at the most
fundamental cellular level, as well as constituting a planetary network of
self-referenced information. Moreover, other examples of the
info-autopoietic nature of information are presented to show the generality
of its applicability. In short, info-autopoiesis is a recursive process
that is sufficiently generic to be the only basis for information in
nature: from the single cell, to multi-cellular organisms, to consideration
of all types of natural and non-natural phenomena, including tools and
artificial constructions.

The link is: https://rdcu.be/b4dnU

Kind Regards,

Jaime

On Sun, Jun 28, 2020 at 6:22 PM Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com> wrote:

> Dear Loet,
> Thank you for yours remarks and questions!
>
> About point *1. Information is a primary concept*
> I could not say anything. These principles were proposed by Pedro and
> maybe he would answer.
>
> Point *2. Information is a secondary concept*
> is written to show some differences.
>
> These two points correspond to the different paradigms about concept
> information.
> The first one is based on understanding that the information exists
> independently of consciousness and it is everywhere. This is so called
> “Attributive paradigm”.
> The second one is the “Subjective paradigm” which is based on
> understanding that information is a result from consciousness processing
> and exists only in its memory.
> So, it is clear, I belong to the second paradigm.
>
> Why “data” instead of information?
> The “Data“ and “Information” are dialectically interconnected.
> The same reflection is Data or Information depending of the subjective
> interconnections between internal mental models and it.
>
> What is reflected by whom?  The reflection for the Subject is what is
> activated on its receptors. So, the subject, or INFOS, reflects states of
> its external and internal sensors.
>
>
> The measurement is not clear. Yes! What is happen in the consciousness is
> still not known. But for practical needs we already used differed
> structures and distances. There is nice work of Deza and Deza called
> “Encyclopedia of distances”  published by Springer. In addition you may
> see the ITHEA book  “Mathematics of distances”
> http://foibg.com/ibs_isc/ibs-25/ibs-25.htm .
>
> You are welcome for further questions and remarks!
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net>
> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:57 PM
> *To:* Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com> ; FIS <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
>
> Dear Krassimir,
>
>
> I find it difficult to follow. I added some comments and questions?
>
>
> Best,
>
> Loet
>
>
>
> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>
> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>
> 1. Information  can be considered as  information, neither matter nor
> energy.
>
> Matter is expressed as mass (e.g. kilograms). Energy in Watts; information
> in dimensionless bits.
>
> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
> reflection is information. *Only **subjectively comprehended **reflections
> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>
> *Why subjectively? Why “data” instead of information.*
>
>
> *It seems that there can be mutual information between information and
> reflections? -:)*
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
> flows. What do you mean with “comprehended”? Who is comprehending?
>
> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
> flows, etc.
>
> What is reflected by whom
>
> Or is this universally the case?
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured—what is the
> dimensionality? How can it be measured? , and can be processed (either
> computationally or non-computationally).
>
> The measurement is not clear.
>
> 4. Information (it seems to me that these are entropy and energy flows)
> flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up (vague) with the
> accompanying energy flows.
>
> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
> the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.Perhaps even
> beyond biology.
>
> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet at leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>,
> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC,
> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>
> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098;
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Krassimir Markov" <markov at foibg.com>
> To: "FIS" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Sent: 6/28/2020 3:46:22 PM
> Subject: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
>
>
> Dear Marcus and FIS Colleagues,
> From my point of view the main choice which has to be made in the very
> beginning is between two opposite cases:
> 1. *Information is a primary concept*
> *2. **Information is a secondary concept*
> This is fundamental choice which cause all further work.
>
> As I already had pointed, if information is a primary concept than no
> theories about information can be created. One may create many other
> theories for EVERYTHING but not for information. Only infinite variety of
> examples may be created but not fruitful theory and discussions. For
> instance, the religious approach belong to this class.
>
> The second case gives us possibility to create theories ABOUT information
> starting from one or more other primary concepts.
> I prefer the second case. The primary concepts I have used are Entity and
> Relationship (http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf), and
> Reflection as a result of interaction between entities.
>
> To illustrate the difference between two cases, let see the first 5
> principles of Pedro in the two variants:
>
>
>
> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>
> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>
> 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>
> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
> reflection is information. *Only subjectively comprehended reflections
> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
> flows.
>
> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
> flows, etc.
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured, and can be processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
> the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> I am afraid that many of FIS members prefer the first case.
> I do not know who prefer the second one beside me. If such ones exist,
> please write to me and we will continue the productive common work.
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Jaime F. Cárdenas-García, PhD, PE
JFCardenasGarcia at gmail.com
(240) 498-7556 (cell)
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