[Fis] Fwd: Informatic Primitives: Logical vs. Material

[Marcus Abundis]

From: Marcus Abundis <55mrcs at gmail.com>
Date: Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 3:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Informatic Primitives: Logical vs. Material
To: Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>


Last I heard LIR was entirely dualistic in nature which, perforce, excludes
creativity.
Have you finally improved your model, or does it remain the same?

The view I posit is that of a dualist-triune, superficially dualistic in
nature but essentially triune (i.e., requiring three parts) in operation.
This is not unlike a Hegelian dialectic . . . you have heard of that
haven't you?

Marcus


On Thu, Jul 9, 2020 at 2:54 PM Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
wrote:

> A little bit like logic in reality, perhaps?
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> Joseph
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> ------------------------------
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> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Marcus
> Abundis
> *Sent:* jeudi, 9 juillet 2020 13:49
> *To:* fis at listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* [Fis] Informatic Primitives: Logical vs. Material
>
>
>
> Lars-Göran’s (1 July post) 20-40 different ways of using `information’
> (and other words) is an excellent point. There are countless ways in which
> we use any `word’. But, if we hope to frame `information science’ or
> `general informational systems’ one must name *primitives* detailing base
> facets of `information’. Exactness, primitively precise detail, is what
> affords `science’ – where better detail makes better science. Thus,
> `information’ (or even `data') used as a core term is, in itself, of little
> use – in fact, it is so vague and imprecise as to be confusing. We should
> speak instead of detailed informatic primitives, only.
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> For example, science as physics/chemistry/biology/etc. is supported by
> firm `measurable and repeatable’ *primitive elements*. Without primitives
> (bosons, atoms, cells, etc.), no science exists, nor is science even
> possible. Instead confusion prevails (as with FIS?). In comparison,
> economics and psychology are so inexact in their primitives one barely
> calls them science. Still, in the end this leads one to ask `What
> *primitives* are required to enact information science as a formal
> discipline?’
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> To answer this question, a difference between physical/hard science and
> informatics is that *material primitives* support hard science (primitive
> elements used in step-wise logical `levels’). But no material primitives
> exist for informatics – or perhaps better said, an entire universe of
> material primitives (from science and beyond) are available for
> informatics. That informatic material (and abstract) vastness leads one to
> ask `At which level should I begin my analysis?’ We thus see Pedro pointing
> to biology, Loet seems to advocate for sociology(?), Yixin and Krassimir
> point to agency, and so forth . . . the list is long and varied (as
> Francesco and Pedro also point out  in 1 & 2 July posts; sincere apologies
> if I mischaracterize your interests above).
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> As such, from that informatic abundance, the only way to proceed is to
> name *logical primitives* in lieu of *material primitives*. Logical
> primitives must cover ALL FOREGOING MATERIAL LEVELS, but as a primitive
> `meta perspective’.
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> To my mind’s eye, FIS dialogue often bounces around `What one level might
> be best used?' (Shannon, biology, consciousness, etc.) or `What
> characteristic traits/dynamics should we focus on?' (Shannon, primary,
> secondary, etc.) . . . but rarely (if ever?) do I see actual GENERAL
> INFORMATIC PRIMITIVES being named (please tell me if I missed it). This
> changed when I saw Yixin's March 2020 post mentioning subject object roles
> – prompting me to re-surface on FIS. As such . . . I have already suggested
> (via Yixin's 28 June post) informatic primitives as (O)bject and (S)ubject
> roles with innate (V)ariability. I welcome/encourage further discussion of
> actual named GENERAL INFORMATIC PRIMITIVES that afford an advance on a
> science of information . . .
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> *Marcus Abundis*
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> [image: http://]about.me/marcus.abundis
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