[Fis] 10 Principles

[Moisés André Nisenbaum]

Dear friends.
It is very nice to hear from you and I hope everybody is well and healthy.
The 10 principles table is amazing. I love good and intelligent
summarizations :-)
But it is important to remember that the concept of information is context
dependent (for example: biological, physical, social, philosophical, etc.)
So, in my opinion, it should have "n" tables, one for each context.
These tables may be related, forming a classification or even an ontology.
For those who believe that the concept of information can be unified, I
guess that the construction of these tables would be the first step.
We are 102 specialists in the FIS list. Wouldn't be an interesting
collective project to build this multidimensional object composed of tables
with interdisciplinary connections?
What do you think?
Cheers
Moisés



Em dom., 28 de jun. de 2020 às 14:58, Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net>
escreveu:

> Dear Krassimir,
>
>
> I find it difficult to follow. I added some comments and questions?
>
>
> Best,
>
> Loet
>
>
>
> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>
> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>
> 1. Information  can be considered as  information, neither matter nor
> energy.
>
> Matter is expressed as mass (e.g. kilograms). Energy in Watts; information
> in dimensionless bits.
>
> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
> reflection is information. *Only **subjectively comprehended **reflections
> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>
> *Why subjectively? Why “data” instead of information.*
>
>
> *It seems that there can be mutual information between information and
> reflections? -:)*
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
> flows. What do you mean with “comprehended”? Who is comprehending?
>
> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
> flows, etc.
>
> What is reflected by whom
>
> Or is this universally the case?
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured—what is the
> dimensionality? How can it be measured? , and can be processed (either
> computationally or non-computationally).
>
> The measurement is not clear.
>
> 4. Information (it seems to me that these are entropy and energy flows)
> flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up (vague) with the
> accompanying energy flows.
>
> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
> the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.Perhaps even
> beyond biology.
>
> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet at leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>,
> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC,
> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>
> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098;
>
> ------ Original Message ------
> From: "Krassimir Markov" <markov at foibg.com>
> To: "FIS" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Sent: 6/28/2020 3:46:22 PM
> Subject: [Fis] 10 Principles
>
>
> Dear Marcus and FIS Colleagues,
> From my point of view the main choice which has to be made in the very
> beginning is between two opposite cases:
> 1. *Information is a primary concept*
> *2. **Information is a secondary concept*
> This is fundamental choice which cause all further work.
>
> As I already had pointed, if information is a primary concept than no
> theories about information can be created. One may create many other
> theories for EVERYTHING but not for information. Only infinite variety of
> examples may be created but not fruitful theory and discussions. For
> instance, the religious approach belong to this class.
>
> The second case gives us possibility to create theories ABOUT information
> starting from one or more other primary concepts.
> I prefer the second case. The primary concepts I have used are Entity and
> Relationship (http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf), and
> Reflection as a result of interaction between entities.
>
> To illustrate the difference between two cases, let see the first 5
> principles of Pedro in the two variants:
>
>
>
> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>
> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>
> 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>
> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
> reflection is information. *Only subjectively comprehended reflections
> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
> flows.
>
> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
> flows, etc.
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured, and can be processed
> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
> energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles underlie
> the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> I am afraid that many of FIS members prefer the first case.
> I do not know who prefer the second one beside me. If such ones exist,
> please write to me and we will continue the productive common work.
>
> Friendly greetings
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
Moisés André Nisenbaum
Coordenador do Curso Técnico em Manutenção e Suporte em Informática (MSI)
Instituto Federal do Rio de Janeiro - IFRJ
Campus Rio de Janeiro
moises.nisenbaum at ifrj.edu.br

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