[Fis] 10 Principles

Wed Jul 1 12:42:53 CEST 2020

Cari colleghi,
l'informazione è una parola polisemica, quindi può avere tanti significati
più o meno probabili. Ma ce n'è uno
che consiste in un processo, non un dato, tendente a dare o prendere forma
che si tras-forma nel tempo, dando luogo ad un processo di tras-
in-form-azione. La misura di questa forma è  una quantità-qualitativa o
qualità quantitativa e dipende dal tipo-categoria di informazione.
Difatti possiamo avere: informazione fisica, naturale o termodinamica;
informazione genetica o genomiica. il cui codice è alla base della vita;
per questo l'informazione genetica è l'informazione delle informazioni;
informazione semiotico-semantica o storico-culturale fondamentale per
la significazione, l'informazione e la comunicazione; informazione
matematica o cibernetica che si fonda su un'entropia che non ha niente
a che vedere con l'entropia termodinamica e l'entropia fuzzy.
La materia o l'energia è od ha una particolare informazione. Per trovare un
concetto di informazione su cui mettersi d'accordo è necessario prima
mettersi d'accordo. sull'armonia del sapere o sul sapere dell'armonia. Non
è possibile raggiungere l'accordo se ognuno pensa o ritiene che il suo
punto di vista sia quello giusto che deve essere accettato e seguito da
tutti gli altri. Proprio per questo ho scritto: " Scienza dell'amore o
amore della scienza.
Sogno dell'economia dell'amore o amore dell'economia del sogno (Aracne,
Roma, 2019).
Grazie per l'attenzione critica o la critica attenta  che riterrete di
dedicare al mio pensiero.
Un abbraccio.
Francesco

'

Il giorno mer 1 lug 2020 alle ore 11:00 Karl Javorszky <
karl.javorszky en gmail.com> ha scritto:

> Concept of information
>
> To me, there exists a concept of information. It is roughly the same as
> the idea of the background.
> Like a shadow, a background has no independent existence. Yet, it is
> unavoidable to acknowledge its existence and necessity.
> The technical definition of information (the collection of the remaining
> alternatives) is in alignment with the concept.
> One may as well discuss, whether the the concept of the subtractum exists
> as such, because that is what one does not see when regarding the results
> of a=c-b resp b=c-a.
> That what is not there is descriptive of that what is there.
>
> Of course, the concept only works in assemblies that are not infinite. But
> as we will not find on this planet anything that would be infinite, the
> idea of information being a name for the experience of the background, as
> long as we remain in the confines of our milky way, remains expressible.
>
> Karl
>
>
>
> Lars-Göran Johansson <Lars-Goran.Johansson en filosofi.uu.se> schrieb am
> Mi., 1. Juli 2020, 08:51:
>
>>
>> Dear Loet and others,
>> To talk about something called ’the concept of information’ in this way,
>> i.e., that one can have different paradigms about it, is still to tacitly
>> assume  that we are talking about something which we disagree about. That
>> something, a certain concept, is a fantasy, it doesn’t exist.
>> The entire discussion is about different ways of using the *word*
>> ’information’. There is no such thing as a *concept of information*.
>> And as almost all philosophers agree on, the meaning of word is
>> determined by its context. This was Frege’s insight, the context principle.
>> (He was not the first, by the way, but the most famous)
>>
>> Everyone can immediately realize that by looking up almost any word in
>> OED. It is not uncommon to find 20-40 different ways of using a particular
>> word. So ’Information’ is in good company with most words.
>>
>>
>> Lars-Göran
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 29 juni 2020 kl. 08:14 skrev Loet Leydesdorff <loet en leydesdorff.net>:
>>
>> Dear Krassimir
>>
>> These two points correspond to the different paradigms about concept
>> information.
>> The first one is based on understanding that the information exists
>> independently of consciousness and it is everywhere. This is so called
>> “Attributive paradigm”.
>> The second one is the “Subjective paradigm” which is based on
>> understanding that information is a result from consciousness processing
>> and exists only in its memory.
>> So, it is clear, I belong to the second paradigm.
>>
>> The issue is, in my opinion, the specification of the relation.  Concepts
>> are specified and entertained in discourses to which we have reflexive
>> access to different extends. "Objective knowledge" is based on coding the
>> communication.
>>
>>
>> Why “data” instead of information?
>> The “Data“ and “Information” are dialectically interconnected.
>> The same reflection is Data or Information depending of the subjective
>> interconnections between internal mental models and it.
>>
>> What is reflected by whom?  The reflection for the Subject is what is
>> activated on its receptors. So, the subject, or INFOS, reflects states of
>> its external and internal sensors.
>>
>> There is a model of agency in the background of these formulations. The
>> "states" cannot communicate.
>>
>>
>> The measurement is not clear. Yes! What is happen in the consciousness
>> is still not known. But for practical needs we already used differed
>> structures and distances. There is nice work of Deza and Deza called
>> “Encyclopedia of distances”  published by Springer. In addition you may
>> see the ITHEA book  “Mathematics of distances”
>> http://foibg.com/ibs_isc/ibs-25/ibs-25.htm .
>>
>>
>> Why not use information theory for the measurement? (Theil, 1972)
>>
>> Best,
>> Loet
>>
>>
>> You are welcome for further questions and remarks!
>>
>> Friendly greetings
>> Krassimir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Loet Leydesdorff <loet en leydesdorff.net>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 28, 2020 8:57 PM
>> *To:* Krassimir Markov <markov en foibg.com> ; FIS <fis en listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] 10 Principles
>>
>>
>> Dear Krassimir,
>>
>>
>> I find it difficult to follow. I added some comments and questions?
>>
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Loet
>>
>>
>>
>> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>>
>> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>>
>> 1. Information  can be considered as  information, neither matter nor
>> energy.
>>
>> Matter is expressed as mass (e.g. kilograms). Energy in Watts;
>> information in dimensionless bits.
>>
>> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
>> reflection is information. *Only **subjectively comprehended **reflections
>> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>>
>> *Why subjectively? Why “data” instead of information.*
>>
>>
>> *It seems that there can be mutual information between information and
>> reflections? -:)*
>>
>> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
>> flows. What do you mean with “comprehended”? Who is comprehending?
>>
>> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
>> flows, etc.
>>
>> What is reflected by whom
>>
>> Or is this universally the case?
>>
>> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
>> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>>
>> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured—what is the
>> dimensionality? How can it be measured? , and can be processed (either
>> computationally or non-computationally).
>>
>> The measurement is not clear.
>>
>> 4. Information (it seems to me that these are entropy and energy flows)
>> flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
>> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up (vague) with the
>> accompanying energy flows.
>>
>> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
>> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
>> energy flows.
>>
>> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
>> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.Perhaps
>> even beyond biology.
>>
>> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
>> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
>> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
>> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
>> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Loet Leydesdorff
>>
>> Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
>> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>>
>> loet en leydesdorff.net  <loet en leydesdorff.net>; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
>>
>> Associate Faculty, SPRU,  <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
>> Sussex;
>>
>> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>,
>> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC,
>> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>>
>> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;
>> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
>> ORCID: http://orcid.org/0000-0002-7835-3098;
>>
>> ------ Original Message ------
>> From: "Krassimir Markov" <markov en foibg.com>
>> To: "FIS" <fis en listas.unizar.es>
>> Sent: 6/28/2020 3:46:22 PM
>> Subject: [Fis] 10 Principles
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Marcus and FIS Colleagues,
>> From my point of view the main choice which has to be made in the very
>> beginning is between two opposite cases:
>> 1. *Information is a primary concept*
>> *2. **Information is a secondary concept*
>> This is fundamental choice which cause all further work.
>>
>> As I already had pointed, if information is a primary concept than no
>> theories about information can be created. One may create many other
>> theories for EVERYTHING but not for information. Only infinite variety of
>> examples may be created but not fruitful theory and discussions. For
>> instance, the religious approach belong to this class.
>>
>> The second case gives us possibility to create theories ABOUT information
>> starting from one or more other primary concepts.
>> I prefer the second case. The primary concepts I have used are Entity and
>> Relationship (http://www.foibg.com/ijita/vol14/ijita14-1-p01.pdf), and
>> Reflection as a result of interaction between entities.
>>
>> To illustrate the difference between two cases, let see the first 5
>> principles of Pedro in the two variants:
>>
>>
>>
>> *1. Information is a primary concept*
>>
>> *2. Information is a secondary concept*
>>
>> 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>>
>> 1. Information is a class of reflections in material entities. Not every
>> reflection is information. *Only subjectively comprehended reflections
>> are information. Not comprehended reflections are data.*
>>
>> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages, or
>> flows.
>>
>> 2. Reflections may be comprehended as structures, patterns, messages,
>> flows, etc.
>>
>> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be  processed
>> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>>
>> 3. Reflections can be recognized, can be measured, and can be processed
>> (either computationally or non-computationally).
>>
>> 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
>> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
>> energy flows.
>>
>> 4. Reflection flows are essential organizers of life's self-production
>> processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the accompanying
>> energy flows.
>>
>> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
>> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>>
>> 5. Communication is based on special kind of reflections created by one
>> entity and reflected by a second one. This way, the reflections
>> comprehended as information by the first entity may be secondary reflected
>> by the second one. Such information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles
>> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>>
>> I am afraid that many of FIS members prefer the first case.
>> I do not know who prefer the second one beside me. If such ones exist,
>> please write to me and we will continue the productive common work.
>>
>> Friendly greetings
>> Krassimir
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Loet Leydesdorff
>>
>> Professor, University of Amsterdam
>> Amsterdam School of Communications Research (ASCoR)
>> Kloveniersburgwal 48, 1012 CX Amsterdam.
>> Tel. +31-20-525 6598; fax: +31-842239111
>>
>> loet en leydesdorff.net  <loet en leydesdorff.net>; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
>>
>> Visiting Professor, ISTIC,  <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>> Honorary Professor, SPRU,  <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
>> Sussex; http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
>>
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