[Fis] The Age of Discord. The Foundations of DIS-information Science

Bruno Marchal marchal at ulb.ac.be
Thu Nov 28 16:05:11 CET 2019

Dear Colleagues,

> On 27 Nov 2019, at 22:29, Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner en bluewin.ch> wrote:
> Dear Colleagues,
> I thank both those of you who commented and those who did not. I would like to understand the latter - why there were only 6 responses: was my formulation in fact too ‘political’? Do people think that negative things like disinformation don’t require analysis? The key things I learned:
> Annette:
> Three clear contributions:
> 1) Understanding disinformation and misinformation is part of a full conceptualization of information.

I am not sure why my comment appear in a different thread, yet with the set title.

Anyway, I agree a lot with this statement by Annette. Actually, in elementary arithmetic the disinformation on physics seems so high that it makes a priori Mechanism false. But incompleteness eventually explains why we still converge to the right physics when accumulating the information, although a lot of work will remain to test this with Nature.

Gödel’s theorem shows why disinformation necessarily occur: <>t -> <>[]f. Consistency (= ~[]f = <>t) implies the consistency of inconsistencies. Universal machine can lie, and indeed, the lies provides direct personal benefits, albeit payed by the others.

> 2) Principles applying to them may have essential implications for the underlying physics (and other sciences).

Again, that is very important.

> 3) We should list again the things we do not understand as a key part of our strategy.

OK again, but that is not that simple. The strategy here is very similar to Plato strategy in Metaphysics, but its “best” student, Aristotle, did not understood this at all.

> Jaime:
> A melancholy posting. I had thought human beings possessed recursive levels of cognitive processing such that even disinformation and selfish behavior are the not the results of blind instinct alone. When those capacities atrophy . . .    

L’homme est un loup pour l’homme...

> Krassimir:
> 1) The strengths and weaknesses of what it is to be human.
> 2) Avoid lies and liar paradoxes. They are binary ‘traps’ for thought.


> Terry:
> Thank you. Clearly,
> 1) Normative aspects of information should be an essential part of a full scientific conceptualization of it.
> 2) Lets start with just one way to mitigate the operation of disinformation.

Education and research, and this in all domain. Disinformation will die when we stop fearing the possible truth, and when theology is back to science (modesty, no claim of any truth, etc.).

> Joseph:
> I mention a term I just heard for the first time on Swiss TV – infobesity.
> We need an informational biotope to treat this.
> I look forward to a next round, even though this is not a formal discussion topic.
> Best wishes.

All the best,


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