[Fis] Pause to Wait Pedro's New Year Lecture!

Fri Dec 27 21:11:34 CET 2019

Dear Joseph, all,

I think Joseph's point is made by Peter Rowlands here.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VzmTaTj7zlQ

He introduces his "rewrite system" for physics, which is based on his
"nilpotent quantum mechanics" and Clifford algebra (see
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/9814618373/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_N1LbEbDRT0RVT).
He argues that our digital computer information systems are a subset of
what he calls "natural information processing". The latter is quaternionic
and nilpotent (following Dirac).

Most simply, "digital information systems use 1s and 0s, where the active
element is 1; in natural information systems the active element is 0".
Peter's maths is worth spending time with to see that this is not a facile
remark.

For someone pursuing a similar path (although I'm not clear if she gets the
nilpotent thing) Cohl Furey is also doing impressive things with octonians
and Clifford algebra: https://youtu.be/sfg8-KjvnpM

I've been profoundly changed by these ideas.

Best wishes

Mark

On Fri, 27 Dec 2019, 18:38 Joseph Brenner, <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> wrote:

> Dear All,
>
>
>
> Again in the interest of seeking new forms of expression, I state that
> there is and there is not such a link. What this means for me is that
> neither science can or should be reified. Computer science captures *part*
> of what is in information science, but not the part which is dependent on
> non-algorithmic, qualitative properties of information processes.
>
>
>
> Since these properties are not captured either in the citation environment
> studies made by Loet, the domain I describe has perhaps *indirect* links
> orthogonal to those shown. However, I feel information science is ‘large’
> enough to include information sociology as a home for them.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Loet
> Leydesdorff
> *Sent:* vendredi, 27 décembre 2019 07:20
> *To:* fis
> *Subject:* [Fis] Pause to Wait Pedro's New Year Lecture!
>
>
>
> In my opinion, there is indeed a link between computer science and
>
> information science.
>
> Isn't it?
>
> If it can be demonstrated that there is not, it would be a result of
>
> crucial importance for the FIS community.
>
> But it is likely that it is a matter of opinion, and that such a
>
> result cannot be decided.
>
>
>
> The picture attached shows that there is NOT such a direct link.  It is
> based on the citation environments (citing and cited) of JASIST. Three
> clusters are distinguished:
>
>
>
> 1. Library and information sciences
>
> 2. Information management
>
> 3. computer science
>
>
>
> I hope that the system allows for the transmission.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Loet
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Michel.
>
>
>
>
>
> Le ven. 27 déc. 2019 à 00:57, Xueshan Yan <yxs at pku.edu.cn> a écrit :
>
>
>
> Dear Michel and Krassimir,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your very important comments. I especially appreciate
> Krassimir's "Computer science is an engineering science" and the hint that
> Shannon thinks "His theory was not about information".
>
>
>
> We are about to cross the boundary between 2019 and 2020. At this moment,
> Pedro will give a New Year Lecture every year. Here, he will summarize the
> FIS’s discussions in the past year and put forward the systematic
> arrangement in the next year. In his lecture, we usually can find some
> exciting ideas. So let's pause the current internal discussion on IS4SI's
> work and wait for Pedro's lecture.
>
>
>
> Best wishes
>
>
>
> Xueshan
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com>
>
> Sent: Thursday, December 26, 2019 8:34 PM
>
> To: Michel Petitjean <petitjean.chiral at gmail.com>; Yan Xueshan <
> yxs at pku.edu.cn>
>
> Cc: Marcin SCHROEDER <mjs at aiu.ac.jp>; 钟义信 <zyx at bupt.edu.cn>;
> annette.grathoff <annette.grathoff at is4si.org>; fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>;
> mark burgin <markburg at cs.ucla.edu>; Wolfgang Hofkirchner <
> wolfgang.hofkirchner at is4si.org>; take <take at digital-narcis.org>; czc0910 <
> czc0910 at 163.com>; denizhan <denizhan at boun.edu.tr>; jdian <jdian at unileon.es>;
> Gustavo Saldanha <saldanhaquim at gmail.com>; 邬 <wukun at mail.xjtu.edu.cn>;
> Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>; Gordana Dodig Crnkovic <
> gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se>; leb <leb at create.aau.dk>; sbr.msc <
> sbr.msc at cbs.dk>
>
> Subject: "The Bandwagon" !
>
>
>
> Dear Xueshan, Michel, Marcin, and FIS Colleagues,
>
>
>
> I answer to your closed discussion, because Michel has posted it in FIS
> list.
>
>
>
> Culinary science is different from the science of making pots!
>
> Pots are just one of the technical tools that culinary science uses, but
> the end product of culinary science is the food, no matter with what means
> it is prepared.
>
>
>
> But neither the culinary science nor the science of pots can correctly
> define the concept of "delicious"!
>
>
>
> Computer science is the engineering science of creating data processing
> tools, as well as the science of data processing itself with computers.
>
>
>
> Please read Shannon's article "The Bandwagon" (
> https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/stamp/stamp.jsp?arnumber=1056774).
>
> He made it clear that his theory was not about information, it is just a
> theory of data transmission and it is too dangerous to transmit its results
> beyond the field of data transmission (communication).
>
>
>
> Some colleagues confuse “data” and “information” concepts.
>
> Replace the word "information" in their writings with the word "data" and
> you will get brilliant theories.
>
>
>
> The same applies to all other sciences - they can help with the right
> tools and experiments, but they can't define the concept of "information"
> correctly.
>
>
>
> The concept of "information" is a philosophical one and only in philosophy
> is it possible to give a good definition to be used by other sciences.
>
>
>
> Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
>
> Warm friendly greetings,
>
> Krassimir
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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>
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