[Fis] The elusive concept of information

[Bruno Marchal]

Dear Krassimir, dear colleagues,


I did not realise that some people have been eliminated from the list? Was not that some error?
I am OK with the idea of getting back the old list. 

Yes, the elusive concept of information, but most “in” are elusive, like the infinite and the infinities, the indicible, informal, intuitive, etc. The elusive “in” often close to negation.

Maybe to understand information, we should try to understood better was could be a general notion of formation, and then define information negatively from that: whatever formation is given, it is not information.

Personally, I do not belief in science, but I believe in the scientific attitude, which is modesty, never claiming the truth, and always proposing theories and interpretations of theories, whatever the domain is. My domain is the “theology" of the universal Turing machine, where the “theology" is defined by what is true about the machine, and its (variates, imposed by incompleteness) self-referential modes, the “science" of the machine is all what the machine can justify. 
Incompleteness entails a gap between truth and justifiability, and machine can discover that gap, and become mystical in some sense. It is a testable theory, as it contains physics, which can be compared with the observation. It fits, as the quantum aspect of nature is recovered by the fact that no universal machine can know the infinitely many computations which support them, and the laws of physics arise by a sort of consciousness or first person selection statistic on those computations.

Only bad faith wants to separate science from religion.

I see religion/meaning/truth as the only goal.
I see science/theories/observation as the only mean.


Bruno




> On 7 Oct 2018, at 18:22, Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Pedro and FIS Colleagues,
>  
> Warm greetings for the new season of FIS discussions!
>  
> The strict restrictions are not good as we have seen in FIS list!
> Now, there are many cases where the EU Directive is seen to be not adequate to real situations.
> For instance the supermarket’s cards – renewing is not acceptable by the customers who already receive discount cards and deactivating old cards is not in the interest of the supermarket’s  stakeholders.
> So ...
> The possibility to unsubscribe is enough and it was not needed to reduce the FIS list.
> I propose to return old list of addresses – many colleagues did not understand what really they need to do and we removed many of them without any real need.
> In addition, the FIS list is a scientific but not a SPAM, not an industrial advertising structure and EU Directive had to be implemented cleverly.
>  
> Now about the nice sentence of Karl: “the elusive concept of information”.
>  
> Many years and many scientists try to discover what is information,  but still there is not common understanding.
> Because of many reasons.
>  
> First, every current definition discover only a part of the whole.
>  
> Second, every scientist wants to be the inventor and to be the first who give the entire definition and to write The General Information Theory. Me too :-) !
>  
> Third, and maybe the most important!, is the contradiction of scientific and non scientific paradigms which cause impossibility to find common understanding.
> In this direction, the worst influence is done by the paradigm for external for the brain intelligence.
> It doesn’t matter what kind of it is assumed – machine, information-space-time continuum, or any other.
>  
> At the end, still there are many scientists who really do not want to have clear understanding of concept information – in such case every paper written in scientific manner is good to be published nevertheless what is its content.
>  
> Because of this, I see the need to establish at least to separate lists – for those who believe in external intelligence and for those who really want to understand what is information and why the other believe that external intelligence exists.
> If somebody believe that external intelligence does not exist, his place is in the first list - of believers.
> Especially for me, I stopped answering to such posts because I esteem the human rights and don’t want to contradict without any real result.
>  
> Friendly greetings and successful FIS work!
> Krassimir
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
>  
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20181010/f13a0d40/attachment.html>