<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html charset=utf-8"></head><body style="word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: space; -webkit-line-break: after-white-space;" class="">Dear Krassimir, dear colleagues,<div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I did not realise that some people have been eliminated from the list? Was not that some error?</div><div class="">I am OK with the idea of getting back the old list. </div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Yes, the elusive concept of information, but most “in” are elusive, like the infinite and the infinities, the indicible, informal, intuitive, etc. The elusive “in” often close to negation.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Maybe to understand information, we should try to understood better was could be a general notion of formation, and then define information negatively from that: whatever formation is given, it is not information.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Personally, I do not belief in science, but I believe in the scientific attitude, which is modesty, never claiming the truth, and always proposing theories and interpretations of theories, whatever the domain is. My domain is the “theology" of the universal Turing machine, where the “theology" is defined by what is true about the machine, and its (variates, imposed by incompleteness) self-referential modes, the “science" of the machine is all what the machine can justify. </div><div class="">Incompleteness entails a gap between truth and justifiability, and machine can discover that gap, and become mystical in some sense. It is a testable theory, as it contains physics, which can be compared with the observation. It fits, as the quantum aspect of nature is recovered by the fact that no universal machine can know the infinitely many computations which support them, and the laws of physics arise by a sort of consciousness or first person selection statistic on those computations.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Only bad faith wants to separate science from religion.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">I see religion/meaning/truth as the only goal.</div><div class="">I see science/theories/observation as the only mean.</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class="">Bruno</div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""></div><div class=""><br class=""><div><blockquote type="cite" class=""><div class="">On 7 Oct 2018, at 18:22, Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" class="">markov@foibg.com</a>> wrote:</div><br class="Apple-interchange-newline"><div class="">
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">Dear
Pedro and FIS Colleagues,</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">Warm
greetings for the new season of FIS discussions!</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">The
strict restrictions are not good as we have seen in FIS list!</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">Now,
there are many cases where the EU Directive is seen to be not adequate to real
situations.</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">For
instance the supermarket’s cards – renewing is not acceptable by the customers
who already receive discount cards and deactivating old cards is not in the
interest of the supermarket’s stakeholders.</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">So
...</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">The
possibility to unsubscribe is enough and it was not needed to reduce the FIS
list.</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">I
propose to return old list of addresses – many colleagues did not understand
what really they need to do and we removed many of them without any real
need.</div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">In
addition, the FIS list is a scientific but not a SPAM, not an industrial
advertising structure and EU Directive had to be implemented cleverly.
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""> </div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class="">Now
about the nice sentence of Karl: <font face="Times New Roman" class=""><strong class="">“the
elusive concept of information”.</strong></font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""></font> </div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Many years and many scientists try to discover what is
information, </font> <font face="Times New Roman" class="">but still there is not
common understanding.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Because of many reasons.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">First, every current definition discover only a part of
the whole.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""></font> </div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Second, every scientist wants to be the inventor and to
be the first who give the entire definition and to write The General Information
Theory. Me too :-) !</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""></font> </div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Third, and maybe the most important!, is the
contradiction of scientific and non scientific paradigms which cause
impossibility to find common understanding.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">In this direction, the worst influence is done by the
paradigm for external for the brain intelligence.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">It doesn’t matter what kind of it is assumed – machine,
information-space-time continuum, or any other.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">At the end, still there are many scientists who really do
not want to have clear understanding of concept information – in such case every
paper written in scientific manner is good to be published nevertheless what is
its content.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class=""></font> </div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Because of this, I see the need to establish at least to
separate lists – for those who believe in external intelligence and for those
who really want to understand what is information and why the other believe that
external intelligence exists.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">If somebody believe that external intelligence does not
exist, his place is in the first list - of believers.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Especially for me, I stopped answering to such posts
because I esteem the human rights and don’t want to contradict without any real
result.</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Friendly greetings and successful FIS
work!</font></div></div>
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<div style="font-size: small; text-decoration: none; font-family: Calibri; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; display: inline;" class=""><font face="Times New Roman" class="">Krassimir</font></div></div>
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