[Fis] Summing up: New Year Lecture
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Tue Jan 30 14:06:24 CET 2018
Dear FISers,
Apart from the very interesting critique by Sungchul, there is an
intriguing comment I would like to make respect the new evolutionary
views presented. I will risk to discuss on a topic, topology, too far
from my usual fields. So I trust the benevolence of FIS readers.
As far as we have been told, the germ line cells, the gametes, contain
each one a DNA algorithmic "hemi-description" of the future
multicellular ensemble organism. When fertilization occurs, the two
different hemi-descriptions are put together in a unique, complete DNA
algorithm. Then, paying attention to the BUT (Borsuk Ulam Theorem)
insights presented in this list by Tozzi and Peters, we might interpret
that two 3D projections are fused into a 4D one. The gain in information
is evident, and it is this gain what makes possible the construction of
the multicellular ensemble. That 4D structures and dynamics are present
in the multicellular may be evidenced by the fractality of most of that
construction (systems such as circulatory, pulmonary, renal, brain,
etc.). Actually the presence of 4D dynamics in cerebral information
processing has been repeatedly highlighted by different authors. Now,
what John Torday argues, is that an essential mission of the
multicellular construct becomes the gathering of adaptive epigenetic
marks editing the 3D hemi-descriptions, so that the future ensemble may
be better adapted to its environment...
In the extent to which the above has any cogency, there emerges a new
disciplinary front to check the enigmatic continuation of the
gamete/zigote/organism along the eons of life.
Best--Pedro
El 24/01/2018 a las 15:33, JOHN TORDAY escribió:
> Dear FIS colleagues, Pedro has pointed out some rookie errors in my
> post. You can find my paper "From cholesterol to consciousness" at
> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28830682. Hopefully you have
> access to the paper without having to buy it. If you don't please
> email me at jtorday at ucla.edu <mailto:jtorday at ucla.edu> and i will send
> you a copy. As for addressing consciousness at the cellular/molecular
> level, I understand that the mental health professionals have a
> problem with consciousness beyond the brain/mind. But I consider that
> anthropocentric. Just like every other aspect of our physiology,
> consciousness is the endogenization of environmental factors. In the
> case of consciousness it is the vertical integration of calcium fluxes
> for all of the cells of the organism. All organisms are conscious of
> their surroundings to one degree or another. And self-reference is, in
> my opinion, a result of the Singularity/Big Bang, so it would apply to
> all organisms, unicellular and multicellular alike. I refer to the
> experiments of Helmut Plattner, exposing paramecia to glucose. When
> the paramecium homes in on the sugar its 'nervous system' of calcium
> flux lights up just like the neurons in our brains. And as to the
> extrapolation from individual consciousness to cosmology based on the
> homologies between Quantum Mechanics and Evolutionary Biology, I see
> that as a means of fully understanding the significance of
> consciousness as the connection between the animate and inanimate as
> one continuous Singularity. It is only in that way that the true
> nature of Nature can be fully understood. As for smaller increments,
> the work of Daniel Fels on electromagnetic communication between cells
> may hold the answer
> (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4793142/).
>
> Best, John
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2018 at 5:41 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>
> Dear John and FIS colleagues,
>
> It was nice hearing your response. For technical reasons of the
> server, _attachments are unwelcome_ (and often directly rejected).
> Send please a web address where interested people can download
> your document. Also, it is better if you send directly your
> response to FIS list (_*fis at listas.unizar.es
> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>*_). About your content, I see a
> couple of problems introducing "consciousness" at the
> cellular/molecular level. For this term has a very definite
> meaning in the /ad hoc/ research that is taken place during last
> decades. Conflating it with basic cellular processes may not be
> necessary, given that other terms (more realistic ones?) are
> available. For instance, I referred to self-referential cognition.
> In any case, I agree that classical autopoiesis falls too short
> of what is needed... Besides, about the cosmological relationship
> with fundamental physics, is it a convenient step? Does it
> introduce a premature closure in the bio-informational thinking
> process?
>
> Best--Pedro
>
>
> El 22/01/2018 a las 16:02, JOHN TORDAY escribió:
>> Dear FISers, I greatly appreciate Pedro's comments regarding my
>> New Year Lecture. I fully agree with his comment " That life's
>> physiology is based on the conjunction of a few principles:
>> neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and homeostasis-homeorhesis" applies
>> to non-living states too. I did not intend to make that statement
>> exclusive, and if it sounded like that Pedro's clarification is
>> important. In fact have just published a paper entitled "Quantum
>> Mechanics Predicts Evolutionary Biology" which is predicated on
>> the hypothesis that self-referential self-organization is the
>> result of the Singularity/Big Bang, Newton's Third Law of
>> Thermodynamics that every action has an equal and opposite
>> reaction. That idea would apply to both evolutionary biology and
>> to balanced chemical reactions alike. As for the question of the
>> emergence of self-referential consciousness 'right at the
>> beginning', I am in favor of that concept, as I have expressed it
>> in a recent paper, entitled "From Cholesterol to Consciousness"
>> (see attached) so I look forward to reading your comments about
>> that idea as well, since it has the potential to fully integrate
>> physics and biology in my humble opinion.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
>> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear FISers,
>>
>> Going to the extreme, I think this year opening lecture can
>> be summarized in three contentious points.
>>
>> 1. That life's physiology is based on the conjunction of a
>> few principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and
>> homeostasis-homeorhesis.
>>
>> 2. That communication (cell signaling) is an essential factor
>> in the multicellular evolution towards complexity.
>>
>> 3. That epigenetic inheritance and the obligate recursion to
>> the unicellular state become the basis of a new evolutionary
>> theory.
>>
>> I disagree with point 1, as I think some nonliving states
>> could also be characterized by those principles (eg, chemical
>> cycles/hypercycles in marine vents, and other outcomes
>> derived from "energy flows"); besides, some previous "info
>> stuff" has to be in place. Then I completely agree with point
>> 2, for signaling is not just another characteristic of the
>> cell, it is "the" eukaryotic trait par excellence. And I am
>> curious on how point 3 could be further substantiated... In
>> this respect I recommend the two papers that Bill sent to the
>> list a few weeks ago. Do we need to postulate the emergence
>> of a form of "self-referential cognition" right at the beginning?
>> Perhaps!
>>
>> All the best--Pedro
>>
>>
>>
>> El 09/01/2018 a las 19:05, Bill escribió:
>>> Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
>>>
>>> I have been following the thread of comments with great
>>> interest, all of which have all been occasioned by John
>>> Torday's profound insights about the nature of evolutionary
>>> development in light of the importance of cell-cell
>>> signaling and molecular biology. From the comments, it is
>>> clear that there is a strong impulse to seek a means of
>>> integrating the role of symbiogenesis, viruses and mobile
>>> elements, multilevel selection, niche construction, genomic
>>> plasticity into a common narrative with an informational
>>> perspective at its foundation.
>>> In the spirit of that line of discussion, I am offering
>>> two links that discuss evolution as an biologic information
>>> management system. Some of this work shares direct
>>> commonality with John's, since he and I are frequent
>>> collaborators.
>>>
>>> http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm
>>> <http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm>
>>>
>>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X
>>> <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X>
>>>
>>> Both of these articles can be considered as complementary to
>>> Pedro's very fine article, 'How prokaryotes ‘encode’ their
>>> environment: Systemic tools for organizing the information
>>> flow', which is in BioSystems.
>>>
>>> I am grateful to John for inviting me to participate in the
>>> forum and to Pedro for encouraging me to share these
>>> manuscripts.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Bill
>>>
>>> William B. Miller, Jr., M.D.
>>> 602-463-5236 <tel:%28602%29%20463-5236>
>>> wbmiller1 at cox.net <mailto:wbmiller1 at cox.net>
>>
>> --
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
>> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>> Tfno.+34 976 71 3526 <tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026> (& 6818)
>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>> <http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>>
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> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno.+34 976 71 3526 <tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026> (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> <http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/>
> -------------------------------------------------
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--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
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