[Fis] Summing up: New Year Lecture
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Wed Jan 24 14:41:40 CET 2018
Dear John and FIS colleagues,
It was nice hearing your response. For technical reasons of the server,
_attachments are unwelcome_ (and often directly rejected). Send please a
web address where interested people can download your document. Also, it
is better if you send directly your response to FIS list
(_*fis at listas.unizar.es*_). About your content, I see a couple of
problems introducing "consciousness" at the cellular/molecular level.
For this term has a very definite meaning in the /ad hoc/ research that
is taken place during last decades. Conflating it with basic cellular
processes may not be necessary, given that other terms (more realistic
ones?) are available. For instance, I referred to self-referential
cognition. In any case, I agree that classical autopoiesis falls too
short of what is needed... Besides, about the cosmological relationship
with fundamental physics, is it a convenient step? Does it introduce a
premature closure in the bio-informational thinking process?
Best--Pedro
El 22/01/2018 a las 16:02, JOHN TORDAY escribió:
> Dear FISers, I greatly appreciate Pedro's comments regarding my New
> Year Lecture. I fully agree with his comment " That life's physiology
> is based on the conjunction of a few principles: neguentropy,
> chemiosmosis, and homeostasis-homeorhesis" applies to non-living
> states too. I did not intend to make that statement exclusive, and if
> it sounded like that Pedro's clarification is important. In fact have
> just published a paper entitled "Quantum Mechanics Predicts
> Evolutionary Biology" which is predicated on the hypothesis that
> self-referential self-organization is the result of
> the Singularity/Big Bang, Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics that
> every action has an equal and opposite reaction. That idea would apply
> to both evolutionary biology and to balanced chemical reactions alike.
> As for the question of the emergence of self-referential consciousness
> 'right at the beginning', I am in favor of that concept, as I have
> expressed it in a recent paper, entitled "From Cholesterol to
> Consciousness" (see attached) so I look forward to reading your
> comments about that idea as well, since it has the potential to fully
> integrate physics and biology in my humble opinion.
>
> On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 4:01 AM, Pedro C. Marijuan
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>> wrote:
>
> Dear FISers,
>
> Going to the extreme, I think this year opening lecture can be
> summarized in three contentious points.
>
> 1. That life's physiology is based on the conjunction of a few
> principles: neguentropy, chemiosmosis, and homeostasis-homeorhesis.
>
> 2. That communication (cell signaling) is an essential factor in
> the multicellular evolution towards complexity.
>
> 3. That epigenetic inheritance and the obligate recursion to the
> unicellular state become the basis of a new evolutionary theory.
>
> I disagree with point 1, as I think some nonliving states could
> also be characterized by those principles (eg, chemical
> cycles/hypercycles in marine vents, and other outcomes derived
> from "energy flows"); besides, some previous "info stuff" has to
> be in place. Then I completely agree with point 2, for signaling
> is not just another characteristic of the cell, it is "the"
> eukaryotic trait par excellence. And I am curious on how point 3
> could be further substantiated... In this respect I recommend the
> two papers that Bill sent to the list a few weeks ago. Do we need
> to postulate the emergence of a form of "self-referential
> cognition" right at the beginning?
> Perhaps!
>
> All the best--Pedro
>
>
>
> El 09/01/2018 a las 19:05, Bill escribió:
>> Dear Pedro and Colleagues,
>>
>> I have been following the thread of comments with great interest,
>> all of which have all been occasioned by John Torday's profound
>> insights about the nature of evolutionary development in light of
>> the importance of cell-cell signaling and molecular biology.
>> From the comments, it is clear that there is a strong impulse to
>> seek a means of integrating the role of symbiogenesis, viruses
>> and mobile elements, multilevel selection, niche construction,
>> genomic plasticity into a common narrative with an informational
>> perspective at its foundation.
>> In the spirit of that line of discussion, I am offering two
>> links that discuss evolution as an biologic information
>> management system. Some of this work shares direct commonality
>> with John's, since he and I are frequent collaborators.
>>
>> http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm
>> <http://www.mdpi.com/2079-7737/5/2/21/htm>
>>
>> https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X
>> <https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S007961071730233X>
>>
>> Both of these articles can be considered as complementary to
>> Pedro's very fine article, 'How prokaryotes ‘encode’ their
>> environment: Systemic tools for organizing the information flow',
>> which is in BioSystems.
>>
>> I am grateful to John for inviting me to participate in the forum
>> and to Pedro for encouraging me to share these manuscripts.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Bill
>>
>> William B. Miller, Jr., M.D.
>> 602-463-5236 <tel:%28602%29%20463-5236>
>> wbmiller1 at cox.net <mailto:wbmiller1 at cox.net>
>
> --
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno.+34 976 71 3526 <tel:+34%20976%2071%2035%2026> (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es <mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> <http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________ Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
> <http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20180124/e2384e39/attachment.html>
More information about the Fis
mailing list