[Fis] Focusing on Narratives. Infordomics

[Francesco Rizzo]

Cari Pedro, Joseph e Tutti,
mi permetto, se possibile, di inviarvi qualche pagina del capitolo 23. LA
NATURA LINGUISTICA E COMUNICATIVA DELL'ATTIVITA' ECONOMICA (1995) di
"Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o l'economia della scienza"
(FrancoAngeli, Milano, 1999, pp. 559-561).che ritengo utile e funzionale al
dibattito.

23.1 Accostarsi all'esperienza economica con una mentalità linguistica o
dialogativa

    L'economia contemporanea è sempre più basata sui processi di
trasinformazione  (...). La "produzione" e il "consumo" appaiono in misura
crescente delle oper-*azioni* aperte all'informazione e alla comunicazione,
piuttosto che delle attività che si limitano a trasformare, accumulare e
usare risorse materiali. Nella società post-moderna prendono il sopravvento
gli aspetti immateriali o epifenomenici dei processi economici
modificandone la tecnologia in senso informatico. La crescente
dematerializzazione dell'economia rivela la natura (o cultura) segnica o
simbolica dei "fatti" economici in un contesto esistenziale e cognitivo
spiccatamente linguistico e monetario.

  Allora è necessario accostarsi all'esperienza economica con una nuova
mentalità in quanto gli ordinamenti o gli organismi sociali si originano e
manifestano la loro plasticità o intelligenza comportamentale negli
accoppiamenti strutturali e nelle interazioni di dominio linguistico. La
coerenza e l'armonia nelle relazioni e nelle interazioni ricorsive fra i
componenti di un sistema sociale umano dipendono dai rapporti strutturali
ontogenetici di tipo co 2municativo associabili a espressioni e termini
semantici.

    Il linguaggio consente a chi lo usa di favorire la riflessione e
irrobustire la coscienza personale e sociale. Inoltre serve a descrivere
l'ambiente comune agli organismi che interagiscono. La descrizione delle
descrizioni, il desiderio dei desideri, il rapporto dei rapporti, sono le
caratteristiche fondamentali del linguaggio che è responsabile del
ben-essere o del mal-essere degli uomini. Per questo motivo gli uomini
esistono ed operano (anche) economicamente nel linguaggio aperto e capace
di garantire loro un adattamento costante nel "dominio dei significati".

    Il linguaggio economico è indispensabile per descrivere, immaginare,
mettere in relazione. Esso influenza, fino a plasmarla, l'ontogenesi di
ogni persona. Le parole sono indispensabili per le inter-azioni economiche,
come i beni economici in quanto segni permettono l'accoppiamento
strutturale interpersonale. Il linguaggio economico non deve de-scrivere o
rivelare una realtà esterna, ma serve per realizzare quella conoscenza per
comprendere la coordinazione comportamentale senza la quale non potrebbero
esistere ordinamenti sociali, economici, giuridici, politici, etc.



23. 2 Mercato come luogo di interazione narrativa dei segni economici


   Le esperienze economiche post-moderne, al pari delle poetiche più
recenti, richiedono un particolare impegno autonomo del consumatore o del
fruitore il quale gradisce sempre di meno le sequenze univoche e necessarie
della produzione, dell'offerta e della distribuzione dei beni, mentre
dimostra di preferire beni o servizi aventi una natura probabilistica,
presupponente una certa ambiguità situazionale, che stimola scelte
operative o interpretative personali, cangianti, incerte, anche a costo di
essere o di apparire illusorie.

    Le immagini del mercato costituiscono un luogo privilegiato della
interazione narrativa dei segni economici. Il sistema economico-simbolico è
formato da un insieme di "tratti" che ne consentono la lettura e
l'interpretazione. È necessario sfruttare la differenza, il mutamento e la
rivoluzione dei sistemi simbolici: invece di considerare la moneta segno
del valore (dei beni economici) bisogna ritenere i beni economici segni del
valore (della moneta). La scrittura, la narrazione, il racconto delle
metafore o parabole economiche creano un salto, una discontinuità, una
caduta, un *vuoto di parola*, di significati, di conoscenza: un'inflazione
di valore o un valore inflazionato. Creano cioè una differenz-ialità, un
gradiente, un dis-livello che produce il con-*tratto*, lo s-*cambio*,
l'inter-*azione*: il cambio del tratto dell'azione o della con-trattazione.
Il bi-sogno di tutti è quello di conoscere il linguaggio economico estraneo
(o degli estranei) non per com-*prenderlo*, ma per rilevarne la differenza.
Differenza che non può essere mai annullata o cancellata dalla superficiale
socialità e talvolta volgare comunicazione del linguaggio monetario che è
intraducibile o induce al tradimento. L'irriducibile in-*differenza* del
linguaggio monetario rende l'attività economica un continuo fare o disfare
il reale, sistematico e patrimoniale mondo della "pulsione di
accumulazione" e della "prodigalità narcisistica".

    La lingua o la ricchezza comunicativa individuale di cui siamo padroni
è incapace di indovinare o scoprire per intero il "romanzesco integrale"
mondo dell'economia della comunità sociale che contribuiamo a formare.
Talvolta (ci) mancano, le parole, le frasi, le concezioni e quindi
ricorriamo alla diluizione, all'annacquamento, all'«emorragia del soggetto
in un linguaggio frazionato, parcellizzato, diffratto sino al vuoto»[1]
<#m_-8534848663525701738__ftn1>. Il linguaggio economico non deve
affannarsi, come fanno molte lingue occidentali, a decretare la "vita" e la
"realtà" degli eventi o dei soggetti economici, ma deve, come fanno alcune
lingue orientali, ricondurre o trattenere questi eventi o soggetti
economici nella loro qualità di "prodotti", di funzioni, "recisi" dalla
credenza referenziale per antonomasia, quella cioè delle cose o degli
esseri che vivono. Non possiamo conoscere e con-*testare* la nostra società
(economica) usando il linguaggio aberrante o l'ideologia terrificante della
cultura o mentalità scientista che spazza via o cancella proprio la
creatività o l'inventiva degli uomini. Il nostro parlare (economico) è un
non vivere, un far morire la nostra *vita*-lità, la nostra capacità di
stupirci, sorprenderci, incontrarci, amarci gli uni con gli altri.

    Per far soprav-v*ivere* l'economia bisogna ri-significarla
ri-situandola nel luogo creativo del linguaggio simbolico-metaforico per
assicurarle il bi-*sogno* vitale della comunicazione. E non c'è
comunicazione che nella parola, "immagine acustica" che rap-*presenta*
meglio di qualsiasi simbolo il valore delle cose o le cose del valore,
senza alcuna referenzialità esterna o antecedente ad essa. Il valore
(economico) trova in se stesso la giustificazione e si tra-*manda* e si
tras-*mette* nel tempo mediante un ininterrotto processo di
autoreferenzialità.


Grazie. Francesco.

------------------------------

[1] <#m_-8534848663525701738__ftnref1> Barthes R., *L'impero dei segni*,
Torino, Einaudi, 1984, p. 12.

Il giorno mar 4 dic 2018 alle ore 12:41 Joseph Brenner <
joe.brenner at bluewin.ch> ha scritto:

> Dear Xueshan,
>
>
>
> Thank you for your proposal of a domain of Infordomics. I see it as a way
> of furthering the useful insights that can be gained thorough
> classification, guidelines and protocols of discussion. I note that –domics
> and domain have the same Greek root *‘domos’ – *house or place, hence,
> the *place* for information.
>
>
>
> However, I think that your proposed inclusion of Semiotics as Linguistics
> and as a major stand-alone subject is problematic. This is in part due to
> the absence, in your list, of an explicit reference to Meaning.
>
>
>
> Sören has proposed as a subject, in another context, “Information, Meaning
> and Semiotics”. For discussion here, I would have preferred Information,
> Meaning, Semiosis and Semiotics. I see Semiosis both as meaning and as a
> dynamic process of reasoning and of generating meaning. On the other hand,
> Semiotics is rather a classificatory system applied to formal, structural
> aspects of language. Of course, there is some overlap with meaning, but
> Semiotics as most commonly used today suffers from its implied reference to
> and dependence on the categories, logic and classifications of Peirce. It
> is necessary to remind ourselves that the Peircean approach is only one
> among others, and that more serious scientific and ontological commitments
> can be made in some of the latter.
>
>
>
> The fact that Meaning in a sense in involved in all the fields you define
> (psychology, communication, social information) does not mean that it is an
> unscientific concept; it is that it, like information itself, requires some
> additional dynamic dimensions for its description.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Joseph
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of *Xueshan
> Yan
> *Sent:* mardi, 4 décembre 2018 11:08
> *To:* FIS Group
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Focusing on Narratives
>
>
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
> Thanks Pedro for introducing the important topic of narrative, many views
> of Loet, Joseph, Karl, of course Pedro, etc. are very profound.
>
> After accomplished my first book to investigate various information and
> informational disciplines, my second book, *Infordomics*, will
> concentrate on discussing information issues in the Humanities and Social
> Sciences, narrative will be its main concern. I have collected a dozen of
> books about these aspects. Infordomics is a new discipline which I named.
> As far as the current information concerned, technological information,
> biological information, and social information are the three dominating
> types we have seen. Technological information has been exclusively studied
> by technological informatics (computer science, telecommunications
> science), biological information has been exclusively studied by biology,
> and only social information is a scattered topic in history, journalism,
> literature, art, religion, anthropology, sociology, and others, we haven’t
> a special discipline to deal with it so far. Therefore, I think that
> achievements on information for us are most likely in this field.
>
> As far as the information issues we are concerning, Psychology discusses
> the processing of information, communication (Communicology) discusses the
> transmission of information, Semiotics (Linguistics) discusses the form of
> information, and Infordomics will discuss the remaining issues of
> information. At the beginning, I may concentrate on its structure problems.
> Psychology, Communicology, Semiotics (Linguistics), and Infordomics (other
> new disciplines on information may emerge in the future certainly.)
> constitute a systematic study about social/human information.
>
> However, our FIS (including our IS4SI) is at a hard time now, and we need
> a firm and promising guideline and protocol.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Xueshan
>
>
>
> *From:* fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> *On
> Behalf Of *Pedro C. Marijuan
> *Sent:* Friday, November 30, 2018 4:10 AM
> *To:* fis at listas.unizar.es
> *Subject:* [Fis] Focusing on Narratives
>
>
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> Some brief responses to Loet's and Jerry's comments.
>
> To Loet, unfortunately real life does not allow such neat scheme of
> expectations, observations, and modifications/decisions--except in the
> abstract. Daily life is surrounded by multitude of behavioral cycles and
> happenstances from the subject himself and from the surrounding parties
> impinging on the subject. It is difficult to isolate mainstreams there, and
> it is difficult to know how to orient oneself for the troubled future.
> Besides, important decisions are often irreversible, they mark the course
> of life and there is no way to return to the initial conditions. How easily
> a promising young life can be wasted... And this is the role of traditional
> great stories/narratives: lecturing on how to realize the "potential" of
> one's life, orienting on the big unknowns that particularly the young party
> starting his/her social life has to confront. They orient, amuse, and
> "entertain"--all in one. In our parlance, they are highly efficient *social
> information tools* that contain important adaptive knowledge for
> flourishing in some concrete culture. I do not see much interest in what
> physicalist perspectives can say on that. Maybe I did not succeed with the
> terms, trying to connect the social potential with the general biological
> potentiality, but this was the gist.
>
> In any case, there was a statement in my previous message *"I do not
> consider unscientific the Jungian stance, but not quite scientific either"*
> that in a second thought consider inappropriate. Rather, Jung's work in
> this realm should be taken as belonging to the Humanities. Just that. And
> to be fair he has provided a strong way to analyze stories/narratives which
> has been adopted by some of the most relevant commentators today (Booker,
> Bonnet). The further point, after acknowledging that scholarly fact, is
> whether that perspective can be improved... Probably. I already mentioned
> about the unconscious: that it could be more accurate considering the
> brain-rest activation of contemporary neuroscience (Default Mode Network)
> as taking charge of that involuntary emergence of impressions and deep
> memories. There are now ambitious theoretical schemes of neural information
> processing that could provide light on other points of the conscious, the
> emotional, the sensorimotor, the excitation/inhibition coupling, the
> optimization of neural entropy, etc. But they have to connect with natural
> behavior, and also finally with narratives.
>
> To Jerry's, after his four pages on perplex number system, I can only say
> that great, terrific. It could have been an interesting presentation for an
> ad hoc discussion session. I am tempted to twist a few sentences of his
> text and to intercalate four pages or so on signaling systems, or on the
> "sociotype", which is closer to the current session. But that is not the
> scholarly way of discussion.
>
> To finalize, there is a provocative sentence in Bonnet's closing of his
> book: *"The one who tells the stories rules the world."*
>
> Best wishes
> --Pedro
>
>
> El 25/11/2018 a las 5:10, Loet Leydesdorff escribió:
>
> Dear Pedro, Joseph, and colleagues,
>
>
>
> Let me side with Joseph in this instance.
>
>
>
> memories? And, similarly, does not "potential" refer to
> cognitive/anticipatory capabilities that somehow detect higher fitness
> possibilities along some behavioral paths than others, and then conduce to
> the long term realization and flourishing of a life cycle? The potential
> belongs, say, to the "processual" not to the physical. In my view, the
> general challenge is to re-explain narratives, the fundamental commodity of
> social communication, in a more advanced conceptualization, beyond the
> Jungian, the Shannonian, or the corrosive fake-correctedness  of our
> times... It can be done. The neuroscientific approach would be badly needed
> to recreate the terminology and the fundamental ideas.
>
> Perhaps, I miss the meaning of some of the wordings in this narrative :-),
> but it seems to me that there is something terribly wrong here. "The
> potential belongs ... to the "processual." We can consider this as "nom de
> gueux."
>
>
>
> One always begins with the specification of expectations. I assume that
> these are then "processual"? Expectations (possible states) are tested
> against observations and can then sometimes be rejected.
>
>
>
> For example: One can hypothesize that there are gender differences on this
> list. Then, one can cross-table those of us who on average publish 0, 1, or
> 2 postings with the gender differences (M/F).  This generates a 3 times 2
>  table.
>
>
>
> Using the margin totals one can compute the expected values of each cell
> and test the observed values against the expectations. The expectations are
> "processual"? Indeed, they are possibilities which do not have to be
> realized. That is an empirical question.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, Logic-in-Reality works as a logic with only two values
> (T/F). This may lead to a poor design when one needs more grey shades.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Loet.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor emeritus, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet at leydesdorff.net ; http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, Hangzhou;
> Visiting Professor, ISTIC, <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>
> Beijing;
>
> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;
>
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Best regards
> --Pedro
>
>  El 21/11/2018 a las 9:31, Joseph Brenner escribió:
>
> Dear Colleagues,
>
>
>
> Pedro’s approach, solidly anchored in biology, allows for progress in
> understanding. Two comments on his ‘logic’: 1) I would not call the
> ‘concoction’ within which we live imaginary. It is rather a set of real,
> dynamic mental processes, with actual and potential, effectively causal
> components. 2) ‘Complex life’ instantiates potential (and kinetic) energy
> not only in a ‘book keeping role’. Complex life is constituted by actual
> and potential energy evolving in cycles and stages. Some myths (Epimetheus
> and Prometheus) correctly express this duality and its evolution.
>
>
>
> Unfortunately, there is another myth that I believe correctly models part
> of Jerry’s proposals. It is that of Procrustes, an innkeeper who stretched
> or cut the legs of his guests to make them fit the only available beds,
> until taken care of by Heracles. You write:   A lot more needs to be said
> about the intimate nature of relations among scientific narratives before
> one can bind the logic of the perplex number system to the grammars
> associated with mathematically structured anticipatory systems.
>
>
>
> This sentence needs to be parsed, given the concatenation of terms: in my
> opinion, the purpose of understanding the relations among scientific
> narratives is to understand real anticipatory systems, whether or not
> mathematically structured. Perplex numbers are artificial numerological
> constructions with a corresponding logic that may or may not apply to other
> artificial constructions, such as abstract anticipatory systems, without
> dynamics. Narratives about real science could be applied in principle to
> such questions, but the implication must be avoided that such application
> would tell us anything about reality.
>
>
>
> I cannot accept any manipulation of numbers as being more than *a
> posteriori. *This applies also to Karl’s approach. Also, the concept of
> an ‘in-*formed*’ number is an oxymoron, although I understand the attempt
> to ascribe ‘value-by-association’, so to speak. Numbers cannot accept
> ‘form’, or its meaning; they exist, eternally, outside the world of form
> and change.
>
>
>
> I thus stress the importance of Pedro’s statement:  processes do not go smoothly
> upwards from the quantum level. As one proceeds to higher levels of
> reality, there are discontinuities and different laws apply. One only notes
> the presence of some isomorphisms, such as the failure of some macroscopic
> process equations to commute or distribute. Finally, I, at least, will
> resist any attempts to let in, through the back door, anti-scientific
> concepts of quantum processes in mind and cognition.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Joseph
> ------------------------------
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es
> <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>] *On Behalf Of *Pedro C. Marijuan
> *Sent:* mardi, 20 novembre 2018 21:15
> *To:* fis
> *Cc:* Jerry LR Chandler
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Anticipatory Systems--"Potential"
>
>
>
> Dear Jerry and FIS colleagues,
>
> I wonder how big or how clever your Chemostat apparatus should be. There
> are thousands of metabolic intermediates in an organism, and there are
> another thousands of diversified signals. And we have in the order of 30
> billion cells (trillions in the US system). Plus around 100 trillion of
> bacterial cells in the microbiome. "We" are the emergence all of that
> molecular diversity. It does not mean that life exactly "controls" all the
> details of the mega-information of this whole system... How that control is
> organized, the principles of biological information, so to speak, become
> another great question, but probably very different from the idea of mass
> control in a chemostat. In any case, the way you have argued it,
> seemingly smoothly going upwards from the quantum level, is beyond of what
> I consider feasible. Scientific overstretching of a reasonable paradigm
> perhaps.
>
> Socially, indeed, we do not try to communicate around by following a
> colossal strategy of reducing happenstances to their quantum description;
> neither to the kind of meta-languages you mention. In general, social
> communication revolves around narratives. They are not free-wheeling
> constructions (at least referring to the "great stories" of all epochs) but
> optimized tools to guide individuals in the advancement of their lives, in
> the achievement of their "potential". Looking at the historical evolution
> of those great stories, they are teaching us about which were the cardinal
> aspects of common life to be specifically grasped by the child, by the
> adolescent, by the maiden, the artisan, the warrior, the priest... And in
> this social communication endeavors, life cycles do not appear as
> homogeneous linearly "timed". Human lives are continuously looking ahead,
> anticipating ("Prometheus" style) but simultaneously looking at the past
> and pondering on it ("Epimetheus" style). Although "presentists", we live
> within an imaginary concoction built of mosaic pasts and futures,
> "multi-timed" so to speak. The way to harmonize past, present, and future
> (vital information) is one of the leit motifs of those great stories.
>
> And about cycles, so many of them can be found. At the scale of the
> organism:  cellular & tissular cycles, metabolic cycles, behavioral cycles,
> ultradian cycles, circadian cycles, seasonal cycles, yearly cycles, secular
> cycles, and many others related to social mores. Some of them can be
> arranged in a sort of hierarchy or inclusivity, but there is a fundamental
> diversity. That most of this orchestration of cycles does not require a
> conscious effort does not mean that we should ignore them concerning the
> roots of social communication. The cycles and stages (and "passages")
> within a life cycle have an ominous presence. As i was saying, the
> "potential" of each young life in ascend requires the reception of wisdom
> (via social communication narratives) to integrate the own individual path
> within the social matrix of the time.
>
> Thinking twice about the "potential" of life, it might be something
> important to consider regarding any form or manifestation of life. Perhaps
> better than the Principle of Conatus from Spinoza I was referring days ago
> (the effort to self-maintain and flourish). Complex life has "potential" to
> advance along some multi-time, multi-cycle developmental path in the most
> complex of all environments: the social matrix. Is there some deep
> similarity of this potential with the role that "potential" energy plays in
> our book-keeping of energy conservation?
>
> Thanking the comments,
> Best--Pedro
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Fis mailing list
>
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Pedro C. Marijuán
>
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>
>
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient>
>
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>
>
>
> --
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> Pedro C. Marijuán
>
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>
>
>
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>
> -------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>
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