[Fis] INFORMATION: JUST A MATTER OF MATH

Mon Sep 18 11:07:13 CEST 2017

Dear Jose,

On 15 Sep 2017, at 16:37, Jose Javier Blanco Rivero wrote:

> Dear Arturo,
>
> Math is indeed a language that CAN describe scientific issues, but  
> it is not the only one. And its ability to cuantify scientific  
> issues do not necesarily make it superior.
> Math and natural language face the same formal and logical problems:  
> they cannot make staments about themselves without falling into  
> contradictions or paradoxes (as can be inferred from Gödel).
>
You seem to be too much quick on this. On the contrary, I would say,  
Gödel showed that when we translate the paradoxes of self-reference in  
arithmetic, we get fundamental limitation theorems, not  
contradictions. In fact Gödel has led, with the work of Löb and  
Solovay, to a complete axiomatization of the logic of machine self- 
reference (complete at the propositional level), and that logic re- 
introduce the nuances discovered by Plato and exploited by the  
Neopythagoreans and the Neoplatonicians theologians. Those  
"theologies" are "theories of everything": they contain physics, and  
so are testable, and the physics of the machine can be shown to be  
necessary quantum-like already.

Bruno

> And your statement is certainly self-contradictory: if it is true  
> then it is contradicted by the form of its performance (semantics).
>
> Best regards,
>
> El sep 15, 2017 10:17 AM, "tozziarturo at libero.it" <tozziarturo at libero.it 
> > escribió:
> Dear FISers,
> I'm sorry for bothering you,
> but I start not to agree from the very first principles.
>
> The only language able to describe and quantify scientific issues is  
> mathematics.
> Without math, you do not have observables, and information is  
> observable.
> Therefore, information IS energy or matter, and can be examined  
> through entropies (such as., e.g., the Bekenstein-Hawking one).
>
> And, please, colleagues, do not start to write that information is  
> subjective and it depends on the observer's mind. This issue has  
> been already tackled by the math of physics: science already  
> predicts that information can be "subjective", in the MATHEMATICAL  
> frameworks of both relativity and quantum dynamics' Copenhagen  
> interpretation.
> Therefore, the subjectivity of information is clearly framed in a  
> TOTALLY physical context of matter and energy.
>
> Sorry for my polemic ideas, but, if you continue to define  
> information on the basis of qualitative (and not quantitative)  
> science, information becomes metaphysics, or sociology, or  
> psychology (i.e., branches with doubtful possibility of achieving  
> knowledge, due to their current lack of math).
>
>
> Arturo Tozzi
>
> AA Professor Physics, University North Texas
>
> Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy
>
> Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba
>
> http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
>
>
>
> ----Messaggio originale----
> Da: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> Data: 15/09/2017 14.13
> A: "fis"<fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Ogg: [Fis] PRINCIPLES OF IS
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> As promised herewith the "10 principles of information science". A  
> couple of previous comments may be in order.
> First, what is in general the role of principles in science? I was  
> motivated by the unfinished work of philosopher Ortega y Gasset,  
> "The idea of principle in Leibniz and the evolution of deductive  
> theory" (posthumously published in 1958). Our tentative information  
> science seems to be very different from other sciences, rather  
> multifarious in appearance and concepts, and cavalierly moving from  
> scale to scale. What could be the specific role of principles  
> herein? Rather than opening homogeneous realms for conceptual  
> development, these information principles would appear as a sort of  
> "portals" that connect with essential topics of other disciplines in  
> the different organization layers, but at the same time they should  
> try to be consistent with each other and provide a coherent vision  
> of the information world.
> And second, about organizing the present discussion, I bet I was too  
> optimistic with the commentators scheme. In any case, for having a  
> first glance on the whole scheme, the opinions of philosophers would  
> be very interesting. In order to warm up the discussion, may I ask  
> John Collier, Joseph Brenner and Rafael Capurro to send some initial  
> comments / criticisms? Later on, if the commentators idea flies,  
> Koichiro Matsuno and Wolfgang Hofkirchner would be very valuable  
> voices to put a perspectival end to this info principles  
> discussion    (both attended the Madrid bygone FIS 1994 conference)...
> But this is FIS list, unpredictable in between the frozen states and  
> the chaotic states! So, everybody is invited to get ahead at his  
> own, with the only customary limitation of two messages per week.
>
> Best wishes, have a good weekend --Pedro
>
> 10 PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE
>
> 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages,  
> or flows.
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be   
> processed (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self- 
> production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the  
> accompanying energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles  
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> 6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication  
> exchanges of the human species--and constitutes the core of its  
> "social nature."
>
> 7. Human information may be systematically converted into efficient  
> knowledge, by following the "knowledge instinct" and further up by  
> applying rigorous methodologies.
>
> 8. Human cognitive limitations on knowledge accumulation are  
> partially overcome via the social organization of "knowledge  
> ecologies."
>
> 9. Knowledge circulates and recombines socially, in a continuous  
> actualization that involves "creative destruction" of fields and  
> disciplines: the intellectual Ars Magna.
>
> 10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on the  
> information and knowledge flows that support individual lives, with  
> profound consequences for scientific-philosophical practice and for  
> social governance.
>
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
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