[Fis] INFORMATION: JUST A MATTER OF MATH

[Bruno Marchal]

Dear Arturo,

On 15 Sep 2017, at 15:16, tozziarturo at libero.it wrote:

> Dear FISers,
> I'm sorry for bothering you,
> but I start not to agree from the very first principles.
>
> The only language able to describe and quantify scientific issues is  
> mathematics.
> Without math, you do not have observables, and information is  
> observable.

That is debatable, but follows usually from my working hypothesis  
(brains are Turing emulable), so OK.




> Therefore, information IS energy or matter,

But that seems contradict what you just said.


> and can be examined through entropies (such as., e.g., the  
> Bekenstein-Hawking one).
>
> And, please, colleagues, do not start to write that information is  
> subjective and it depends on the observer's mind. This issue has  
> been already tackled by the math of physics: science already  
> predicts that information can be "subjective", in the MATHEMATICAL  
> frameworks of both relativity and quantum dynamics' Copenhagen  
> interpretation.
> Therefore, the subjectivity of information is clearly framed in a  
> TOTALLY physical context of matter and energy.
>
> Sorry for my polemic ideas, but, if you continue to define  
> information on the basis of qualitative (and not quantitative)  
> science, information becomes metaphysics, or sociology, or  
> psychology (i.e., branches with doubtful possibility of achieving  
> knowledge, due to their current lack of math).

I disagree. The work of Gödel and seq. entails that all universal  
machine have a very precise mathematical "theology", which includes  
the whole of physics (without geography and history of course). That  
makes Digital Mechanism, alias computationalism, testable, and indeed,  
thanks to Quantum Mechanics without wave collapse, being confirmed up  
to now. The price, or the gift, is that physics is no more the  
fundamental science, and we get an explanation were the appearance of  
the physical reality comes from, and why it is persistent. All this is  
made possible and necessary, with mechanism, by the incompleteness  
result which makes the machine introducing distinctions where  
"God" (truth) can show why they are necessary "illusions".
With mechanism, psychology and theology are branch of mathematics,  
even of arithmetic, like computer science. Note that the origin of the  
notion of computation is purely mathematical (and indeed a computation  
is an arithmetical object, that we can implement in a physical  
reality). The physical reality is itself reduced into a statistics of  
first person points of view distributed in arithmetic.

Bruno



>
>
> Arturo Tozzi
>
> AA Professor Physics, University North Texas
>
> Pediatrician ASL Na2Nord, Italy
>
> Comput Intell Lab, University Manitoba
>
> http://arturotozzi.webnode.it/
>
>
>
> ----Messaggio originale----
> Da: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> Data: 15/09/2017 14.13
> A: "fis"<fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Ogg: [Fis] PRINCIPLES OF IS
>
> Dear FIS Colleagues,
>
> As promised herewith the "10 principles of information science". A  
> couple of previous comments may be in order.
> First, what is in general the role of principles in science? I was  
> motivated by the unfinished work of philosopher Ortega y Gasset,  
> "The idea of principle in Leibniz and the evolution of deductive  
> theory" (posthumously published in 1958). Our tentative information  
> science seems to be very different from other sciences, rather  
> multifarious in appearance and concepts, and cavalierly moving from  
> scale to scale. What could be the specific role of principles  
> herein? Rather than opening homogeneous realms for conceptual  
> development, these information principles would appear as a sort of  
> "portals" that connect with essential topics of other disciplines in  
> the different organization layers, but at the same time they should  
> try to be consistent with each other and provide a coherent vision  
> of the information world.
> And second, about organizing the present discussion, I bet I was too  
> optimistic with the commentators scheme. In any case, for having a  
> first glance on the whole scheme, the opinions of philosophers  
> would    be very interesting. In order to warm up the discussion,  
> may I ask John Collier, Joseph Brenner and Rafael Capurro to send  
> some initial comments / criticisms? Later on, if the commentators  
> idea flies, Koichiro Matsuno and Wolfgang Hofkirchner would be very  
> valuable voices to put a perspectival end to this info principles  
> discussion (both attended the Madrid bygone FIS 1994 conference)...
> But this is FIS list, unpredictable in between the frozen states and  
> the chaotic states! So, everybody is invited to get ahead at his  
> own, with the only customary limitation of two messages per week.
>
> Best wishes, have a good weekend --Pedro
>
> 10 PRINCIPLES OF INFORMATION SCIENCE
>
> 1. Information is information, neither matter nor energy.
>
> 2. Information is comprehended into structures, patterns, messages,  
> or flows.
>
> 3. Information can be recognized, can be measured, and can be   
> processed (either computationally or non-computationally).
>
> 4. Information flows are essential organizers of life's self- 
> production processes--anticipating, shaping, and mixing up with the  
> accompanying energy flows.
>
> 5. Communication/information exchanges among adaptive life-cycles  
> underlie the complexity of biological organizations at all scales.
>
> 6. It is symbolic language what conveys the essential communication  
> exchanges of the human species--and constitutes the core of its  
> "social nature."
>
> 7. Human information may be systematically converted into efficient  
> knowledge, by following the "knowledge instinct" and further up by  
> applying rigorous methodologies.
>
> 8. Human cognitive limitations on knowledge accumulation are  
> partially overcome via the social organization of "knowledge  
> ecologies."
> 9. Knowledge circulates and recombines socially, in a continuous  
> actualization that involves "creative destruction" of fields and  
> disciplines: the intellectual Ars Magna.
> 10. Information science proposes a new, radical vision on the  
> information and knowledge flows that support individual lives, with  
> profound consequences for scientific-philosophical practice and for  
> social governance.
> -- 
> -------------------------------------------------
> Pedro C. Marijuán
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta 0
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
> -------------------------------------------------
>
>
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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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