[Fis] Fwd: Re[2]: Heretic

Thu Oct 5 10:45:39 CEST 2017

Dear all
It seems to me that the heat in the debate about the definition of the concept of Information is fuelled by deep metaphysical feelings: different people have different views about what is REALLY Information. Metaphysical debates can never be resolved. May I suggest that we agree on this: there are several different concepts, such as Shannon Information, Semantic Information, etc.. Each Information concept has its own distinct definition and each one may use whichever he/she finds useful.

Whether any of these concepts refers to any real thing, INFORMATION, cannot be determined by any empirical research. The reason is that empirical research can sometimes decide the truth of a sentence, but never whether the predicate in that sentence refers to anything.
 Suppose we have found, empirically, that a sentence of the form ’ X is information’ where ’information’ has  a clear definition. (Chose anyone you like.) The truth of this sentence entails that the object referred to by ’X’ must exist; this is a truth condition for any declarative sentence. But it does not follow that the predicate ’Information' refers to something. It suffice that the object X belongs to the extension of the predicate. This is the nominalist position.
Since 1000 years the core debate in metaphysics has been whether there are universals, i.e., properties and relations. The debate about Information is a debate about the existence of a property.
I am an empiricist and nominalist, accepting Occam’s razor: one should not assume more entities than necessary. And assuming that Information is a property, an entithy, is not necessary. We can proceed with scientific research, using any information  concept we think useful, without assuming it refers to anything.  Metaphysical issues can safely be put to rest.

Lars-Göran Johansson

4 okt. 2017 kl. 19:49 skrev tozziarturo at libero.it<mailto:tozziarturo at libero.it>:

-------- Messaggio inoltrato -------- Da: tozziarturo at libero.it<mailto:tozziarturo at libero.it> A: Alex Hankey alexhankey at gmail.com<mailto:alexhankey at gmail.com> Data: mercoledì, 04 ottobre 2017, 07:37PM +02:00 Oggetto: Re[2]: [Fis] Heretic

Dear Prof. Hankey,
I come from a free country, where everybody can say his own opinion, in particular if his opinion is not totally stupid.
The times of Giordano Bruno and Inquisition are gone.

--
Inviato da Libero Mail per Android

mercoledì, 04 ottobre 2017, 06:20PM +02:00 da Alex Hankey alexhankey at gmail.com<mailto:alexhankey at gmail.com>:

Dear Professor Tozzi,

Might I suggest that you graciously retire from the list,
as you evidently do not wish to participate in what
the rest of us find fascinating topics of discussion.

As a physicist, I have no difficulty in relating to the concept of 'information',
and I am aware of no less than five conceptually totally different
mathematical structures, all of which merit the name, 'information'.

With all good wishes,

Alex Hankey

On 4 October 2017 at 02:30,  <tozziarturo at libero.it<mailto:tozziarturo at libero.it>> wrote:

Dear FISers,
After the provided long list of completely different definitions of the term "information", one conclusion is clear: there is not a scientific, unique definition of information.

Nobody of us is able to provide an operative framework and a single (just one!) empirical  testable prevision able to assess "information".
For example, what does "semantics" and "meaning" mean, in empirical terms?
Therefore, to talk about information is meaningless, in the carnapian sense.

Judging from your answers, the most of you are foremost scientists.  Therefore, my proposal is to forget about information, and to use your otherwise very valuable skills and efforts in other fields.
It is a waste of your  precious time to focus yourself in something that is so vague.  It is, retrospectively, a mistake to state that the world is information, if nobody knows what does it mean.

--
Inviato da Libero Mail per Android

_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

--
Alex Hankey M.A. (Cantab.) PhD (M.I.T.)
Distinguished Professor of Yoga and Physical Science,
SVYASA, Eknath Bhavan, 19 Gavipuram Circle
Bangalore 560019, Karnataka, India
Mobile (Intn'l): +44 7710 534195
Mobile (India) +91 900 800 8789
____________________________________________________________

2015 JPBMB Special Issue on Integral Biomathics: Life Sciences, Mathematics and Phenomenological Philosophy<http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00796107/119/3>
_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
_______________________________________________
Fis mailing list
Fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:Fis at listas.unizar.es>
http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

Lars-Göran Johansson
lars-goran.johansson at filosofi.uu.se<mailto:lars-goran.johansson at filosofi.uu.se>
0701-679178

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20171005/6952dced/attachment.html>