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Dear all
<div class="">It seems to me that the heat in the debate about the definition of the concept of Information is fuelled by deep metaphysical feelings: different people have different views about what is REALLY Information. Metaphysical debates can never be resolved.
May I suggest that we agree on this: there are several different concepts, such as Shannon Information, Semantic Information, etc.. Each Information concept has its own distinct definition and each one may use whichever he/she finds useful.</div>
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<div class="">Whether any of these concepts refers to any real thing, INFORMATION, cannot be determined by any empirical research. The reason is that empirical research can sometimes decide the truth of a sentence, but never whether the predicate in that sentence
refers to anything.
<div class=""> Suppose we have found, empirically, that a sentence of the form ’ X is information’ where ’information’ has a clear definition. (Chose anyone you like.) The truth of this sentence entails that the object referred to by ’X’ must exist; this is
a truth condition for any declarative sentence. But it does not follow that the predicate ’Information' refers to something. It suffice that the object X belongs to the extension of the predicate. This is the nominalist position. </div>
<div class="">Since 1000 years the core debate in metaphysics has been whether there are universals, i.e., properties and relations. The debate about
<i class="">Information</i> is a debate about the existence of a property. </div>
<div class="">I am an empiricist and nominalist, accepting Occam’s razor: one should not assume more entities than necessary. And assuming that Information is a property, an entithy, is not necessary. We can proceed with scientific research, using any information
concept we think useful, without assuming it refers to anything. Metaphysical issues can safely be put to rest.</div>
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<div class="">Lars-Göran Johansson</div>
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<div class="">4 okt. 2017 kl. 19:49 skrev <a href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it" class="">
tozziarturo@libero.it</a>:</div>
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Messaggio inoltrato -------- Da:<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">tozziarturo@libero.it</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>A:
Alex Hankey<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></span><a href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com" style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">alexhankey@gmail.com</a><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=""><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>Data:
mercoledì, 04 ottobre 2017, 07:37PM +02:00 Oggetto: Re[2]: [Fis] Heretic</span><br style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: auto; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; widows: auto; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px;" class="">
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<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0px;" class="">Dear Prof. Hankey,<br class="">
I come from a free country, where everybody can say his own opinion, in particular if his opinion is not totally stupid. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
The times of Giordano Bruno and Inquisition are gone. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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<p dir="ltr" class="">--<br class="">
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mercoledì, 04 ottobre 2017, 06:20PM +02:00 da Alex Hankey<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><a href="mailto:alexhankey@gmail.com" target="_blank" class="">alexhankey@gmail.com</a>:<br class="">
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<blockquote cite="x-msg://71/15071341100000031659" style="border-left-width: 1px; border-left-style: solid; border-left-color: rgb(133, 175, 49); margin: 0px 0px 0px 10px; padding: 0px 0px 0px 10px;" class="">
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<div dir="ltr" class="">Dear Professor Tozzi,
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<div class="">Might I suggest that you graciously retire from the list, </div>
<div class="">as you evidently do not wish to participate in what </div>
<div class="">the rest of us find fascinating topics of discussion. </div>
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<div class="">As a physicist, I have no difficulty in relating to the concept of 'information',</div>
<div class="">and I am aware of no less than five conceptually totally different </div>
<div class="">mathematical structures, all of which merit the name, 'information'.</div>
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<div class="">With all good wishes, </div>
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<div class="">Alex Hankey </div>
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<div class="">On 4 October 2017 at 02:30,<span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><span dir="ltr" class=""><<a href="mailto:tozziarturo@libero.it" target="_blank" class="">tozziarturo@libero.it</a>></span><span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span>wrote:<br class="">
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<p dir="ltr" style="margin-top: 0px;" class="">Dear FISers,<br class="">
After the provided long list of completely different definitions of the term "information", one conclusion is clear: there is not a scientific, unique definition of information.<br class="">
</p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Nobody of us is able to provide an operative framework and a single (just one!) empirical testable prevision able to assess "information". <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
For example, what does "semantics" and "meaning" mean, in empirical terms?<br class="">
Therefore, to talk about information is meaningless, in the carnapian sense. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span></p>
<p dir="ltr" class="">Judging from your answers, the most of you are foremost scientists. Therefore, my proposal is to forget about information, and to use your otherwise very valuable skills and efforts in other fields.<br class="">
It is a waste of your precious time to focus yourself in something that is so vague. It is, retrospectively, a mistake to state that the world is information, if nobody knows what does it mean. <span class="Apple-converted-space"> </span><br class="">
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