[Fis] Heretic

[Dai Griffiths]

Thanks Loet, for a very clear and concise exposition of an approach that 
I agree with.

I'm curious about your use of the word 'dualistic'. Dualism usually 
suggests that there are two aspects to a single phenomenon. As I 
interpret your post, you are saying that information and meaning are 
separate concepts. Otherwise, we are led to inquire into the nature of 
the unity of which they are both aspects, which gets us back where we 
started.

So I interpret 'dualistic' here to mean 'two concepts that are 
intertwined in the emergence of events'. Is this parallel to, for 
example, atomic structure and fluid dynamics (perhaps there are better 
examples)? If so, does that imply a hierarchy (i.e. you can have 
information without meaning, but not meaning without information)? This 
makes sense to me, though it is not what I usually associate with the 
word 'dualistic'.

Dai


On 04/10/17 08:16, Loet Leydesdorff wrote:
>>
>> Nobody of us is able to provide an operative framework and a single 
>> (just one!) empirical  testable prevision able to assess "information".
>>
> Dear colleague,
>
> One should not confuse the confusion on the list with the clarity of 
> the concept information in information theory. This definition is 
> operational (e.g., in bits). Your computer would not work without this 
> definition (1 byte = 8 bits). The problem is that this definition of 
> information as uncertainty is counter-intuitive.
>
> The search for an intuitive definition of information has led to 
> unclear definitions. In a recent book, Hidalgo (2015, at p. 165), for 
> example, has defined “information” with reference “to the order 
> embodied in codified sequences, such as those found in music or DNA, 
> while /knowledge and knowhow /refer to the ability of a system to 
> process information.” However, codified knowledge can be abstract 
> and—like music—does not have to be “embodied” (e.g., Cowan, David, & 
> Foray, 2000).
>
> Beyond Hidalgo’s position, Floridi (2010, p. 21) proposed “a general 
> definition of information” according to which “the well-formed data 
> are /meaningful/” (italics of the author). Luhmann (1995, p. 67) 
> posits that “all information has meaning.” In his opinion, information 
> should therefore be considered as a selection mechanism. Kauffman et 
> al. (2008, at p. 28) added to the confusion by defining information as 
> “natural selection.”
>
> Against these attempt to bring information and meaning under a single 
> denominator--and to identify variation with selection--I argue for a 
> dualistic perspective (as did Prof. Zhong in a previous email). 
> Information and meaning should not be confounded. Meaning is generated 
> from redundancies (Bateson, 1972, p. 420; Weaver, 1949; see 
> Leydesdorff /et al./, 2017).
>
> Best,
> Loet
>
> *References:*
>
> Bateson, G. (1972). /Steps to an Ecology of Mind/. New York: Ballantine.
>
> Cowan, R., David, P., & Foray, D. (2000). The Explicit Economics of 
> Knowledge Codification and Tacitness. /Industrial and Corporate 
> Change, 9/(2), 211-253.
>
> Floridi, L. (2010). /Information: A very short introduction/. Oxford, 
> UK: Oxford University Press.
>
> Hidalgo, C. (2015). /Why Information Grows: The Evolution of Order, 
> from Atoms to Economies/. New York: Basic Books.
>
> Kauffman, S., Logan, R. K., Este, R., Goebel, R., Hobill, D., & 
> Shmulevich, I. (2008). Propagating organization: an enquiry. /Biology 
> and Philosophy, 23/(1), 27-45.
>
> Leydesdorff, L., Johnson, M., & Ivanova, I. (2017). Toward a Calculus 
> of Redundancy: Signification, Codification, and Anticipation in 
> Cultural Evolution. 
> https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3030525 .
>
> Luhmann, N. ([1984] 1995). /Social Systems/. Stanford, CA: Stanford 
> University Press.
>
> Weaver, W. (1949). Some Recent Contributions to the Mathematical 
> Theory of Communication. In C. E. Shannon & W. Weaver (Eds.), /The 
> Mathematical Theory of Communication/ (pp. 93-117.). Urbana: 
> University of Illinois Press.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>; 
> http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Associate Faculty, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of 
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, 
> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, 
> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>
> Visiting Fellow, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of London;
>
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Fis at listas.unizar.es
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