[Fis] Scientific communication (from Mark)

[Bruno Marchal]

On 14 Oct 2016, at 16:16, Dai Griffiths wrote:

> To trying to answer this question, I find myself asking "Do patterns  
> exist without an observer?".

Would 2+2=4 be true without the big bang occurring?

Of course this depend on the fundamental theory chosen. With a  
physicalist theory, it is arguable that a pattern does not exist  
without an observer, but this raise the question of what is an  
observer. If it is itself a pattern, where does the first observer  
come from, etc.
With Mechanism, which has been shown epistemologically inconsistent  
with physicalism, we can accept that the truth or falsity of  
arithmetical relations is independent of the existence of an observer,  
and then we can easily defined an observer in term of arithmetical  
relations. This, nevertheless, will multiply it an infinity of times  
and leads to many-worlds, which are somehow confirmed by the  
observation if we agree that there is no wave-collapse (Everett).

To sum up, with Mechanism, some pattern exist independently of the  
observer, but most will make sense only relative to some observer,  
i.e. some universal number.


>
> A number of familiar problems then re-emerge, which blur my ability  
> to distinguish between foreground and background.

That is why a strong, yet natural, hypothesis can help, like (Digital)  
Mechanism. In that case it is a fractal similar to the Mandelbrot set  
(to simplify and shorten things).
Then incompleteness refutes Socrates critics of Theaetetus' definition  
of the knower (the logic of []p & p does differ from the logic of []p,  
even in the case of p <-> []p, as we get with the basic elementary  
arithmetic sentences (sigma_1-sentences).
This might explain why some blurring is unavoidable, and why all  
universal number, from its first person point of view, can't  
distinguish the foreground and the background. Such distinction is  
intrinsically complex and universal machine related.

Bruno


>
> Dai
>
> On 13/10/16 11:32, Karl Javorszky wrote:
>> Do patterns contain information?
>
> -- 
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Professor David (Dai) Griffiths
> Professor of Education
> School of Education and Psychology
> The University of Bolton
> Deane Road
> Bolton, BL3 5AB
>
> Office: T3 02
> http://www.bolton.ac.uk/IEC
>
> SKYPE: daigriffiths
> UK Mobile +44 (0)749151559
> Spanish Mobile: + 34 687955912
> Work: + 44 (0)7826917705
> (Please don't leave voicemail)
> email:
>   d.e.griffiths at bolton.ac.uk
>   dai.griffiths.1 at gmail.com
>
> _______________________________________________
> Fis mailing list
> Fis at listas.unizar.es
> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/