[Fis] Miracles and Natural Order Fis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 24

[Bob Logan]

Dear Friends - the miracle is not that there is stuff but rather that the stuff of which we are made can ask the question why is there stuff and what does that mean? The fact that the questions can not be answered does not matter because it is always the questions that are most important and not the answers. Warm regards and happy pondering - Bob Logan


______________________

Robert K. Logan
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto 
Fellow University of St. Michael's College
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan
www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications










> On Feb 22, 2016, at 3:07 PM, John Collier <collierj at ukzn.ac.za> wrote:
> 
> Dear fis list: <>
>  
> It is impossible to have a system that does not have some order in it. Even a mathematically random collection has regions the are ordered. So order itself is hardly miraculous, given that there is something. 
>  
> I agree with Gordana that the question of why there is something rather than nothing is currently, and on any projection of current understanding, inexplicable. Invoking God doesn’t help (why God, rather than nothing?). It would be nice to be able to show that some being is necessary, but so far all attempts (and there are many in history of thought) have failed.
>  
> John Collier
> Professor Emeritus and Senior Research Associate
> University of KwaZulu-Natal
> http://web.ncf.ca/collier <http://web.ncf.ca/collier>
>  
> From: Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] On Behalf Of Gordana Dodig-Crnkovic
> Sent: Monday, 22 February 2016 12:53 PM
> To: loet at leydesdorff.net; 'Bruno Marchal'; 'fis Science'
> Subject: [Fis] Miracles and Natural Order Fis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 24
>  
> To me the miracle is not so much order, as it is relation, and thus as Loet says “order is always constructed (by us)”-
> but the miracle is the very existence of anything (us, the rest of the universe).
> Why there is something rather than nothing (that would be much simpler)?
> To me miracle is how it all started. From vacuum fluctuations? But where the vacuum comes from?
> But then, why should we call it a miracle? 
> Perhaps the better name is just natural law, finally equally inexplicable and given, 
> but sounds more general and less mystic.
>  
> Best,
> Gordana
>  
>  
> From: Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>> on behalf of Loet Leydesdorff <loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>>
> Organization: University of Amsterdam
> Reply-To: "loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>" <loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>>
> Date: Monday 22 February 2016 at 20:36
> To: 'Bruno Marchal' <marchal at ulb.ac.be <mailto:marchal at ulb.ac.be>>, 'fis Science' <fis at listas.unizar.es <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 23, Issue 24
>  
> All worldviews begin in a miracle. No exceptions.
> 
>  
> I agree. Nevertheless, we should, and can, minimize the miracle. 
>  
> Why would one need a worldview? The whole assumption of an order as a Given (in a Revelation) is religious. Order is always constructed (by us) and can/needs to be explained. 
>  
> No “harmonia praestabilita”, but ex post. No endpoint omega. No cosmology, but chaology.
>  
> With due respect for those of you who wish to hold on to religion or nature as a given; however, vaguely defined.
>  
> Best,
> Loet
>  
> _______________________________________________
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> Fis at listas.unizar.es
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