[Fis] _ Re: _ Re: Otto--re closing lecture
HowlBloom at aol.com
HowlBloom at aol.com
Sat Feb 6 02:34:29 CET 2016
Pedro,
your list of disciplines that information theory needs to ponder is
brilliant--active matter, coupled oscillators, pharmacology, physiology, and
developmental biology.
to go back to the abiotic universe for a moment:
here's one implication of the theory of a communicative cosmos i've been
outlining to you.
The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates is now out in paperback.
The God Problem says that we live in a social cosmos, a communicative
cosmos, a cosmos in which societies of atoms gossip and whisper to each other.
there's a critical implication of this theory of a conversational cosmos
for physics.
current quantum physics is dedicated to the notion that a particle can
exist in multiple states as long as it's in isolation, as long as it's not
being observed, as long is it’s not being measured. but because this universe
is profoundly communicative and because communicative forces like gravity
exist in every distant nook and cranny of the cosmos, no particle is ever
completely alone.
other particles or, more important, other societies of particles,
including mega societies like stars and galaxies, are taking a particle's measure
and the particle is taking theirs. everywhere.
so the basic assumption of the Copenhagen school of quantum physics is
wrong. which means no quantum physics will be real until it takes the social,
communicative, gossipy nature of the cosmos into account, the massively
networked aspect of the cosmos. what does that mean for information theory?
among other things, it means we have to delve into the mystery of what
Luis Villareal calls group identity, the mystery of how masses of collaborating
particles put out messages bigger than their individual powers would
predict. we, like quantum physicists, need to delve into the mystery of
emergent properties.
which is where my book The God Problem: How a Godless Cosmos Creates comes
in.
with warmth and oomph--howard
In a message dated 2/5/2016 8:33:01 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es writes:
Dear FISers,
Just a couple of brief comments to Howard and Jerry.
To Howards: thanks for the exciting New Year Lecture closure! However,
your text below to Otto makes irresistible for me indulging in a final
criticism. It is clear in the text that the boundaries of force are the very
determinants of information/communication. Forces everywhere. From quark forces
to the forces of history. It is exactly the 20th century dominant
physicalism with an info/comm. aggiornamento. I cannot blame it all, of course, as
your historical analysis is very original, but all the other physicalist
conglomerate is not so useful/interesting. When life romps in this tiny corner
of the universe, a new set of info-dynamics are set into motion,
completely different, and capable of overcoming the boundary conditions of force.
hb: well put, Pedro.
The life cycle dominates and commands the environment: selfproducing,
communicating, engaging with other life cycles, transforming everything, etc.
hb: another good point.
This constructive power goes beyond anything seen in the cosmos. It is an
informational constructivism that does not follow smoothly from the
atomistic narrative--there is a big divide...
hb: yes, true.
Historically it is a similar trend of informational constructivism what
leads to overcome the Luciferine solvent power. See France and Germany: after
300 years of wars, treaties, armistices, hostilities, etc. finally are
efficiently united in a common European purpose (or look at the endless wars
between Spain and the United Kingdom). Thanks to collective intelligence in
action (wisdom, justice, kindness) a group of enlightened politicians after
WWII achieved a great design, like Founding Fathers in US 18th Century.
These grand designs are the key to overcome so many contemporary Luciferine
catastrophes around... But we would continue arguing for too long, so I stop
and thank you again for the Lecture!
hb: the book of mine that shows the creative forces in human history and
their ability to radically upgrade humanity is The Genius of the Beast: A
Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism.
To Jerry: you are quite right in the demand for some "scientific meat"
around the notion of communicating, interconnected life cycles. I will try to
provide a few portions:
1. "Active Matter", it is a new scientific field that is getting more and
more fashionable. Basically it consists on computer simulations and real
experimental molecular settings where active molecules (usually
enzyme/proteins) interact with some motive power (ATP, electrical/magnetic fields, metal
beads) and get interconnected in their "work cycles", with the emergence
of amazing collective patterns apparently only restricted to the biological.
This interconnection of "working cycles" is the genuine precursor to what
I was meaning above.
2. Coupled oscillators. A lot of theoretical and experimental work done
around very elementary oscillators (eg, famous Kuramoto model) applied to
chemical, neuronal and theoretical physics fields. It is also known as
"synchronization networks", very well worked by Winfree, Strogatz, Duncan Watts,
etc., about biological clocks, fireflies, crickets, heart cells, and neurons.
Very complex theoretical oscillators built (not far from the cell-cycle
style, though realms of complexity below).
3. Pharmacology: it has been claimed that 80% of the current drugs produce
their effects through the signaling system, by binding to the receptors,
channels, etc. So, they interfere in the communication system of the cell to
modify the life cycle events at a vast scale of whole tissues and organs.
Now we have direct external action on interconnected cell-cycles, with
myriads of models, drug designs, silicon and wet experimental works, etc.
4. Physiology. There is little doubt that the whole physiology relates
finally to interconnected cellular life cycles. Unfortunately (or fortunately,
who knows) most of physiology was conceived before there was even a dream
or a hunch about cell-to-cell communication via especial signaling
systems... We should ad neuroscience too, but it would be to much scientific meat
for the lunch.
To recap, once life is "on", there is a certain discourse about
informational constructivity (to emphasize: which is based on the intertwining of
self-production and communication via interconnected life cycles) that can
reach quite high in order to better understand the info dynamics of those rare
entities based in the informational way of existence... I think Howard's
lecture has put us in front of very intriguing possibilities of social
information science explanation.
Best regards
--Pedro
the force cosmovision El 03/02/2016 a las 7:10, _HowlBloom at aol.com_
(mailto:HowlBloom at aol.com) escribió:
Otto, an interesting call, for a theory that brings together the brute
force of an abiotic universe and information.
Here's a short timeline that pulls the brute force elements together as
informational exchange:
The evolution of information, sociality, social structure, and the
emergent properties of societies
(all dates ABB, After the Big Bang)
10(-31) ABB primitive communication between quarks via the strong force.
The first informational language: attraction and repulsion.
10(-31) ABB the first social groups, threesomes of quarks, produce two
shocking emergent properties—protons and neutrons
10,000 ABB massive social dances, pressure waves, ring the cosmos like a
gong. With, yes, music. What communicative force organizes trillions of
trillions of particles into pressure waves—into rhythmically coming together
in aggregations that span the universe? Do information exchange and
communication choreograph pressure waves in which masses of particles
rhythmically separate just a tiny bit, then come together again?
380,000 ABB emerging from a plasma, slowing down, and giving each other
a bit of breathing room, elementary particles use the electromagnetic force
to communicate. And they discover something odd. Tiny particles have an
inanimate longing. And their inanimate longing precisely fits the
inanimate longing of particles 1,800 times their size. The tiny particles join
with the hulking monsters. The result? Another emergent property, another
supersized surprise: atoms. Hydrogen, helium, and lithium, properties
wildly unpredictable from just the properties of an electron and a proton.
Properties that emerge from a communicative exchange. An informational
exchange between protons and electrons.
380,000 ABB the atom reveals a basic of cosmic structure—hierarchy.
Protons dominate. They determine where the team goes. Electrons subjugate
themselves. They meekly go along. They subordinate. They humbly circle the
proton nucleus.
380,000 ABB atoms communicate via gravity.
400,000 ABB more communication via gravity, but mass communication. The
result? Competition. The era of the great gravity crusades. Wisps,
plumes, and clots of atoms have showdowns, faceoffs in which the bigger
swallows the smaller whole. Then the winner goes off to another showdown,
another competitive confrontation. In which it either eats or is eaten. The
result of these showdowns between gravity balls? Galaxies, stars, planets,
and moons. A galaxy is, guess what, a social swirl organized in a hierarchy
—black holes at the center, stars circling the black holes, planets
circling the stars, and moons circling the planets. All via communication and
information. All via receivers interpreting the messages of senders and
acting on them.
one bottom line: communication, information, music, competition, and
hierarchy are not the products of post-agricultural, post industrial, or post
capitalist societies. they are at work even in dead stuff. even pre-living
nature.
hope that helps.
thanks again for letting me parade such strange ideas in such august
company.
Dear all,
Just a quick reply to Howard's fascinating account of cosmic history.
It seems what is crucially needed is a theory that brings together "brute
force" on the one hand - laws of nature "blindly" colliding and colluding,
from quarks to planets - and "information" on the other - from pre-human
codes (perhaps including quantum computation) and communication to advanced
human and cybernetic networks.
The former seems to be able to do away with everything except a few simple
rules of operation (gravity, natural selection, will-to-power), everything
more complex being the unfolding of the interaction between these few
simple rules (eternal or emergent is beside the point here). The latter seems
to depend upon subjective interpretation, the retention of systems memory,
symbolic coding-decoding, and other processes that compose only a subset of
the (creatures and processes) of the universe. Never the twain shall meet.
Or perhaps brute force can be analyzed as equivalent to information? Or
vice versa? Or as two sides of the same coin?
Best,
Otto Lehto,
Tampere, Finland
--
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
_pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es_ (mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es)
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------
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____________
Howard Bloom
Author of: The Lucifer Principle: A Scientific Expedition Into the Forces
of History ("mesmerizing"-The Washington Post),
Global Brain: The Evolution of Mass Mind From The Big Bang to the 21st
Century ("reassuring and sobering"-The New Yorker),
The Genius of the Beast: A Radical Re-Vision of Capitalism ("A
tremendously enjoyable book." James Fallows, National Correspondent, The Atlantic),
The God Problem: How A Godless Cosmos Creates ("Bloom's argument will rock
your world." Barbara Ehrenreich),
How I Accidentally Started the Sixties ("Wow! Whew! Wild!
Wonderful!" Timothy Leary), and
The Mohammed Code ("A terrifying book…the best book I've read on Islam."
David Swindle, PJ Media).
www.howardbloom.net
Former Core Faculty Member, The Graduate Institute; Former Visiting
Scholar-Graduate Psychology Department, New York University.
Founder: International Paleopsychology Project; Founder, Space Development
Steering Committee; Founder: The Group Selection Squad; Founding Board
Member: Epic of Evolution Society; Founding Board Member, The Darwin Project;
Founder: The Big Bang Tango Media Lab; member: New York Academy of
Sciences, American Association for the Advancement of Science, American
Psychological Society, Academy of Political Science, Human Behavior and Evolution
Society, International Society for Human Ethology, Scientific Advisory Board
Member, Lifeboat Foundation; Editorial Board Member, Journal of Space
Philosophy; Board member and member of Board of Governors, National Space Society.
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