[Fis] Five Momenta. Five Itineraries
Pedro C. Marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Fri Oct 23 14:14:36 CEST 2015
Dear FIS colleagues,
Thanks to all for the valuable insights. Responding briefly:
To Joseph: perhaps your points, although interesting, are not truly an
itinerary. For instance, WuKun and Lupasco belong to the First Momentum
(philos.). I agree that they can be adequate first steps (but there
might be some others, such as Merleau Ponty, Ortega y Gasset, etc.).
Once some temporary philo basis is attained, one has to visit --I
think--the neurodynamic counterpart of those tenets (Momentum 3, neuro).
>From there, a complex evo-devo panorama opens (visiting Momentum 2).
Then it would be high time to return to M1, to consolidate the basis
within an adequate heuristic
"neuro-biologic-ethologic.cognitive-philosophic" approach to human
prosocial capabilities, language included. Time for visiting M5
(infoeconomics of social complexity, development of human history). From
there, to M6 (contemporary info revolution, problems of our time). Back
to M1, proposing an overall new way of thinking, plus quite many further
movements of refinement and deeper analysis...
To Stan: if hierarchy helps to move into the previous multidisciplinary
entanglement fine, otherwise it is a useless item to be kept into the
lean mental "backpack" needed for this itinerary...
To Loet and Marcus: let us agree that disciplines are based on
"communities of inquiry" that follow strict laws of "intellectual
economy". Our limited capabilities force us to establish disciplinary
specialization, and that's good, but a healthy knowledge system would
also establish quite many "vertical" multidisciplines integrating the
"horizontal" disciplines that apply simultaneously into concrete
subjects (as happens in eg, medicine, engineering, anthrolpology, etc.).
To Steven and Soeren, Francesco, and all: Should'nt we distinguish the
above itinerary elements (actually smallish parts from a number of
disciples and subdisciplines) from the "instrumental" fields of
knowledge that can be used "on tap" but quite often are used "on top"? I
mean, classical and new Info theories, von Neumann theories (automata,
machines, games), Turing and computational approaches, symmetry studies,
entropy studies, quantum information, physical information, mathematical
optimization procedures, etc. should not occupy the leading seat in this
trip. To insist, they are instrumental just to help, strictly kept under
command, along the different elaboration stages of the itinerary.
In the extent to which a similar scheme would be valid intelectually,
would it be feasible too? "If we were rich" a system of scientific
committees could be created, seriously working during several years, at
the style of the serious international cooperative work that have lead
to the International System of Measurement Standards. So important was
and has been the standardization of measurements, and we take it for
granted. Curiously, it has an essential informational content regarding
the "social brain"... Anyhow, only an important university could take
charge of this genuine FIS itinerary. Alternatively, "if we were Linus",
a Infopedia could organize the whole voluntary work... but how could we
find our Linus?
Best wishes to all,
Marcus Abundis wrote:
> Perdo – awesome post, great synthesis, thanks! Still, I do not share
> your (apparent?) skepticism on an eventual happy result – although
> said result is certainly not guaranteed.
> Hi Loet,
> First, thank you for your excellent post (Thu Oct 15 14:38:54) as it
> offered the insight I craved.
> > . . . "unity of science" principles are outdated. At issue is to
> specify how the sciences
> and specialties are different; in which respects and why? <
> If I take your meaning correctly (not sure) . . . While I agree
> notions of some "facile unity" should NOT be allowed to (solely)
> capture our collective imaginations, is it not possible to seek unity
> and difference at that same time? One view being "objective
> perspective" and another being a "meta perspective?" It seems to me
> Bateson was on this track with "A Necessary Unity" and "a difference
> that makes . . . " Or perhaps there is some even-more-basic issue I
> miss here . . .
> In my view, shifts in perspective (sometimes subtle) can afford shifts
> in insight, while also threatening apparent ambiguity. Or in the words
> of F. Scott Fitzgerald "The test of a first-rate intelligence is the
> ability to hold two opposed ideas in mind at the same time and still
> retain the ability to function." My apologies if I simply misinterpret
> your post . . .
> If I may say without meaning offense, some recent posts seem to head
> into a more "wooly" direction . . . that I confess to feeling some
> kinship with. Particularly with comments on creativity, ambiguity, and
> the tao. I have been watching closely, but also feel unsure of how or
> if I should engage – in the context of this group. I am not sure how
> productive that direction might (or might not) prove to be.
> My thoughts . . .
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
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