[Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research:

Pedro C. Marijuan pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Fri Dec 11 13:36:13 CET 2015


Dear FISers,

I agree with Loet's views (for once! :-) ).  The energy flow supporting 
the biosphere and society as a whole have not much explanatory power 
regarding the bonding complexity of contemporary societies. Of course, 
it is an interesting exercise, particularly concerning the limits of 
sustainability, but we have had so much thermodynamic inflation that it 
is very difficult adding anything relevant. Irrespective of its 
sophistication, the energetic realm can hardly substitute for the 
informational realm.
About the intriguing interrelationship between kinship and nonkinsip 
modalities of human bonding, a very interesting view was drafted by 
Francis Fukuyama (1995), centered on "trust". He was distinguishing 
between "familial" centered societies and "high trust" societies. In 
European terms (exaggerating), it is the dichotomy between the 
Mediterranean societal culture and the Anglosaxon culture. It is not a 
black and white narrative, as each polarity has advantages and 
disadvantages (think on wine & Mediterranean food!), and actually today 
each country and each culture has some terrible mix of everything, but 
it is interesting just to see how the two kinds of bonding may interact 
within a complex society.  I also penned a few ideas about the matter in 
my recent "How the Living is in the world"  (DOI information: 
10.1016/j.pbiomolbio.2015.07.002.) I am copying below a paragraph (maybe 
a little bit long--excuses). /

This coarse reflection on the dynamics of successive “informational 
entities” helps us make sense of fundamentals of social evolution. The 
transition to a new social order, more or less ‘revolutionary’, tends to 
be produced by new information channels and communication practices that 
support the emergence of new ways to organize the structures of social 
self-production. Thus, the development of social complexity appears as 
irreversibly linked to a chain of historical inventions for 
communication and knowledge generation: numbers, writing, alphabet, 
codices, universities, printing press, books, steam engines, means of 
communication, computers, Internet, etc. (Stonier, 1990; Hobart and 
Schiffman, 1998). This succession of fundamental inventions has 
dramatically altered the “infostructure” of modern societies, and 
subsequently the informational formula for being in the world has been 
applied with multiple variants along that complexity runaway: with 
plenty of room generated by the new information tools, not at the bottom 
but at the supra-individual top. We should not forget that the momentous 
Scientific Revolution was preceded by what has been called the silent 
“corporate revolution” (Huff, 2011), which opened the way for collective 
organizations legally autonomous in European cities during XIII and XIV 
centuries: universities, parliaments, counsels, municipalities, 
professional colleges, guilds, mercantile associations, charities, 
schools, etc. It was this Medieval awakening in the cities of Western 
Europe what made possible the later hyperinflation of autonomous 
collective organizations, –“information based”– growing exponentially 
and propelling all the further complexity of modern societies./

All the best--Pedro

Loet Leydesdorff wrote:
>
> Dear colleagues,
>
>  
>
> I don’t consider it as fruitful to recycle the argument that society 
> were to be modeled as a meta-biology. The biological explanation can 
> perhaps explain behavior of individuals and institutions; but social 
> coordination more generally involves also the dynamics of 
> expectations. These are much more abstract although conditioned by the 
> historical layer. For example, one cannot expect to explain the /trias 
> politica/ or the rule of law biologically. These cultural constructs 
> regulate our behavior from above, whereas the biological supports 
> existence and living from below. The historical follows the axis of 
> time, whereas the codification (albeit historical in the 
> instantiations) also restructures and potentially intervenes and 
> reorganizes social relations from the perspective of hindsight.
>
>  
>
> In analogy to codifications such as the juridical ones, scientific 
> knowledge provides the code for technological intervention. This type 
> of knowledge is human-specific; perhaps, we are also able to build 
> machines that mimick it. This technological evolution is going on for 
> centuries. If I look up from my screen, I look into the gardens which 
> have a typical Dutch polder vegetation. The polder was made in the 
> 17^th century and replaced the natural ecology of marsh land and 
> lakes. The order of the explanation was thus inverted: the constructed 
> structures (instead of the constructing agencies) increasingly carry 
> the system. The constructs don’t have to be material; see my example 
> of the rule of law. It is not a religion, but a dynamics of 
> expectations. Replacing it with a biology misses the point.
>
>  
>
> Best,
>
> Loet
>
>  
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Loet Leydesdorff
>
> Professor, University of Amsterdam
> Amsterdam School of Communication Research (ASCoR)
>
> loet at leydesdorff.net <mailto:loet at leydesdorff.net>; 
> http://www.leydesdorff.net/
> Honorary Professor, SPRU, <http://www.sussex.ac.uk/spru/>University of 
> Sussex;
>
> Guest Professor Zhejiang Univ. <http://www.zju.edu.cn/english/>, 
> Hangzhou; Visiting Professor, ISTIC, 
> <http://www.istic.ac.cn/Eng/brief_en.html>Beijing;
>
> Visiting Professor, Birkbeck <http://www.bbk.ac.uk/>, University of 
> London;
>
> http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en 
> <http://scholar.google.com/citations?user=ych9gNYAAAAJ&hl=en>
>
>  
>
> *From:* Fis [mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es] *On Behalf Of 
> *Nikhil Joshi
> *Sent:* Friday, December 11, 2015 9:47 AM
> *To:* FIS Group
> *Cc:* Nikhil Joshi
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Sustainability through multilevel research: The 
> Lifel, Deep Society Build-A-Thon - 1
>
>  
>
> Dear Guy and FIS colleagues,
>
> Thank you for your comments and the copy of your article. Your views 
> on the roots of biological systems and their evolution in dissipate 
> systems are very interesting. Your paper reminds me of a paper by 
> Virgo and Froese on how simple dissipative structures can demonstrate 
> many of the characteristics associated with living systems, and the 
> work of Jeremy England at MIT.
>
>  
>
> Given your research focus and expertise in looking at living systems 
> as dissipative systems, I would appreciate your views and assistance 
> in understanding the energetics involved in the common multilevel 
> organisational pattern (CMOP) (presented in the paper II of the 
> kick-off mail).
>
>  
>
> At first glance, it appears that different levels in self-organization 
> in living systems  a core dynamic in living systems is comprised of a 
> cycle between a class of more-stable species (coupled-composite 
> species) and a class of less-stable species (decoupled-composite 
> species), see paper II in the kick-off mail.
>
> hence:
>
> Level 1: Molecular self-organization, involves a cycle 
> between oxidised molecules (more stable) and reduced molecules (less 
> stable) in molecular self-organization in  photosynthesis and cellular 
> metabolism [Morowitz and smith]. 
>
>  
>
> Level 2: Cellular self-orgnaization, involves a cycle between 
> autotrophic species (more stable) and heterotrophic species (less 
> stable) in ecosystems [Stability of species types as defined 
> by- Yodzis and Innes Yodzis, P.; Innes, S. Body Size and 
> Consumer-Resource Dynamics. /Am. Nat./ 1992, /139/, 1151].
>
>  
>
> Level 3: Social self-self-organization, involves a cycle between 
> kinship-based social groups (more stable) and non-kinship-based social 
> groups (less stable) [Stability of species types as suggested in Paper 
> II, based on an extension of work of Robin Dunbar and others]. 
>
>  
>
> At level 1 (molecular self-organiztion)- solar energy is stored in the 
>  high-energy reduced molecules. Do you see a possibility that 
> living systems could store energy in cycles involving less stable 
> species at the two other levels (level 2, and 3) as well? (When I 
> speak of stored energy, I am referring to stored-energy as introduced 
> by Mclare, and discussed by Ulanowicz and Ho [Sustainable Systems as 
> Organisms?, BioSystems 82 (2005) 39–51]. 
>
>  
>
> These are early thoughts and your views are much appreciated. 
>
> Many Thanks,
>
> Warm regards,
>
>  
>
> Nikhil Joshi
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>     On 01-Dec-2015, at 10:27 pm, Guy A Hoelzer <hoelzer at unr.edu
>     <mailto:hoelzer at unr.edu>> wrote:
>
>      
>
>     Hi All,
>
>      
>
>     I have been following this thread with interest as much as time
>     permits.  I think multilevel approaches to understanding
>     information flow is an important one.  I also think the structure
>     of natural systems exhibits both hierarchical and heterarchical
>     features.  The hierarchies we formally recognize can be extremely
>     useful, but they are rarely exclusive of alternatives.  Here is a
>     link to a paper Mark Tessera and I published a couple of years ago
>     arguing for one particular hierarchy of multilevel emergence in
>     physical systems connecting lower level physical systems to
>     biological systems:
>
>      
>
>     Tessara, M., and G. A. Hoelzer.  2013.  On the thermodynamics of
>     multilevel evolution.  Biosystems 113:  140–143.
>
>      
>
>     Regards,
>
>      
>
>     Guy
>
>      
>
>     Guy Hoelzer, Associate Professor
>     Department of Biology
>     University of Nevada Reno
>
>     Phone:  775-784-4860
>     Fax:  775-784-1302
>     hoelzer at unr.edu <mailto:hoelzer at unr.edu>
>
>      
>
>  
>


-- 
-------------------------------------------------
Pedro C. Marijuán
Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
50009 Zaragoza, Spain
Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
-------------------------------------------------

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listas.unizar.es/pipermail/fis/attachments/20151211/50e1023a/attachment.html>


More information about the Fis mailing list