[Fis] [Fwd: information.energy] Joseph Brenner

[Pedro C. Marijuan]

----- Original Message -----
*From:* Joseph Brenner <mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
*To:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu> ; fis 
<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es> ; Robert Ulanowicz <mailto:ulan at umces.edu>
*Sent:* Monday, September 08, 2014 6:01 PM
*Subject:* Re: [Fis] information.energy

Dear Stan, Bob and All,
 
This was a very interesting thread which I feel is worth coming back to. 
First of all, I see the attitudes of Stan and Bob as not mutually 
exclusive but complementary. What 'history' means in the 'dim region' 
where it all began is pretty dim. Second, I agree with Stan's 
formulation that information implies more than one entity. This suggests 
to me that it, like energy, is a dualism, sharing some of the 
dualistic properties of that dim region, somwhere  between what is and, 
to use Arthur Eddington's phrase, what is not.
 
Please do not ask me if and how the above idea can be proven. I consider 
it as worth mentioning in the context of the foundations of information 
science because it leaves the door open to the complexities and 
contradictions of information you much earlier and later I have been 
struggling with.
 
It is even possible that Peirce's notions of Firstness and Secondness 
could be related to the above. The problems with these notions would be, 
then, a consequence of his trying to keep them separate to avoid 
contradictions, which he did not like.
 
Best regards,
 
Joseph
 

    ----- Original Message -----
    *From:* Stanley N Salthe <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu>
    *To:* fis <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
    *Sent:* Monday, August 04, 2014 4:21 PM
    *Subject:* Re: [Fis] information.energy

    Bob -- Note that I was pointing out "a sense" in which information
    implies something different from energy -- especially in the context
    of dialectics, which is the basis of Joseph's approach. There can be
    no 'precipitated' energy (matter) without some kind of form,
    realizing one or some constraints, but the concept of information
    (its history) tends to imply interaction.

    STAN  


    On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Robert E. Ulanowicz <ulan at umces.edu
    <mailto:ulan at umces.edu>> wrote:

         > Stanley N Salthe <ssalthe at binghamton.edu
        <mailto:ssalthe at binghamton.edu>>
         > 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago)
         > to Joseph
         > Joseph -- Commenting on:
         > ...
         > Is there not also a sense that information implies more than
        one entity
         > (sender-receiver, object-interpreter)? That too would tend to
        align with
         > the idea of energy being primary.


        But Stan, you were one of the first to recognize the broader
        nature of
        information as constraint. It is also inherent in structure
        (Collier's
        "enformation"). Hence, wherever inhomogeneities exist, so does
        information
        -- an argument for a common origin. Bob


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