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Original Message -----
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch">Joseph
Brenner</a> </div>
<div><b>To:</b> <a title="ssalthe@binghamton.edu"
href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu">Stanley N Salthe</a> ; <a
title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a>
; <a title="ulan@umces.edu" href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu">Robert
Ulanowicz</a> </div>
<div><b>Sent:</b> Monday, September 08, 2014 6:01 PM</div>
<div><b>Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] information.energy</div>
</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Dear Stan, Bob and All,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">This was a very interesting thread
which I feel is worth coming back to. First of all, I see the attitudes
of Stan and Bob as not mutually exclusive but complementary. What
'history' means in the 'dim region' where it all began is pretty dim.
Second, I agree with Stan's formulation that information implies more
than one entity. This suggests to me that it, like energy, is a
dualism, sharing some of the dualistic properties of that dim region,
somwhere between what is and, to use Arthur Eddington's phrase, what
is not. </font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Please do not ask me if and how the
above idea can be proven. I consider it as worth mentioning in the
context of the foundations of information science because it leaves the
door open to the complexities and contradictions of information you
much earlier and later I have been struggling with.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">It is even possible that Peirce's
notions of Firstness and Secondness could be related to the above. The
problems with these notions would be, then, a consequence of his trying
to keep them separate to avoid contradictions, which he did not like.</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Best regards,</font></div>
<div> </div>
<div><font face="Arial" size="2">Joseph</font></div>
<div> </div>
<blockquote
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<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;">-----
Original Message ----- </div>
<div
style="background: rgb(228, 228, 228) none repeat scroll 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial; font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>From:</b>
<a title="ssalthe@binghamton.edu" href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu">Stanley
N Salthe</a> </div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>To:</b>
<a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis</a>
</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Sent:</b>
Monday, August 04, 2014 4:21 PM</div>
<div
style="font-family: arial; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: normal; font-size: 10pt; line-height: normal; font-size-adjust: none; font-stretch: normal;"><b>Subject:</b>
Re: [Fis] information.energy</div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div dir="ltr">Bob -- Note that I was pointing out "a sense" in which
information implies something different from energy -- especially in
the context of dialectics, which is the basis of Joseph's approach.
There can be no 'precipitated' energy (matter) without some kind of
form, realizing one or some constraints, but the concept of information
(its history) tends to imply interaction.
<div><br>
</div>
<div>STAN </div>
</div>
<div class="gmail_extra"><br>
<br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Aug 3, 2014 at 11:13 PM, Robert E.
Ulanowicz <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu"
target="_blank">ulan@umces.edu</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote"
style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0px 0px 0px 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
<div class="">> Stanley N Salthe <<a
href="mailto:ssalthe@binghamton.edu">ssalthe@binghamton.edu</a>><br>
> 9:32 AM (0 minutes ago)<br>
</div>
> to Joseph<br>
> Joseph -- Commenting on:<br>
> ...<br>
<div class="">> Is there not also a sense that information
implies more than one entity<br>
> (sender-receiver, object-interpreter)? That too would tend to
align with<br>
> the idea of energy being primary.<br>
<br>
<br>
</div>
But Stan, you were one of the first to recognize the broader nature of<br>
information as constraint. It is also inherent in structure (Collier's<br>
"enformation"). Hence, wherever inhomogeneities exist, so does
information<br>
-- an argument for a common origin. Bob<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
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<br>
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<pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">--
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