[Fis] RV: Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action
pedro marijuan
pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
Tue Jun 17 21:10:48 CEST 2014
BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@
-----Original Message-----
From: Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2014 09:04:06
To: Pedro C. Marijuan<pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action
Caro Rafael,
scusami per il ritardo con il quale posso risponderTi. Nel linguistico e
comunicativo contesto della "Nuova economia" (che non è traducibile in
"new economy") della produzione o creazione io uso tras-in-form-azione
intesa a come un'azione formativa (letteralmente che dà forma) nel tempo
(in) che diventa una conservazione dinamica, cioè una tras-formazione o
metamorfosi continua; mentre trans-informazione, come anche B. Haussenstein
e K. Lorenz hanno affermato, si riferisce ai processi di ad-attamento che
consistono in acquisizione di sapere corrispondente proprio ad una sorta di
incremento della transinformazione che si stabilisce tra l'organismo e
l'ambiente circostante. Quindi il prefisso "Tras-" si trova in tras-locare,
tras-ferire, tras-gredire, tras-lare, tras-mettere; e soprattutto con
valore figurato, passaggio da una condizione ad un'altra, cambiamento,
mutamento (tras-crivere, tras-figurare, tras-formare, tras-mutare)
prevalentemente dei sistemi inorganici; il prefisso "Trans" riguarda
essenzialmente i sistemi organici e si ritrova in transessuale,
transgenico, etc. Per la formazione dell'Universo, la progettazione o
organizzazione delle città, la creazione dei beni culturali, la produzione
dei beni economici, a mio parere, è più ragionevole usare parole composte
con il prefisso "Tras". Naturalmente, il mio punto di vista presuppone un
dominio cognitivo-linguistico-semantico legato alla lingua italiana e
coerente con la mia episteme economica accennata nei messaggi precedenti.
In ogni caso, ognuno è libero di chiamare le cose o di significare i segni
come vuole, secondo il principio semiotico dell'arbitrarietà dei segni.
Rispettandone le conseguenti coerenze. Quel che conta è la logica del
ragionamento unito alla disponibilità al dialogo o confronto, senza
pre-giudizi o apriorismi.
Vi ringrazio per la Vostra apertura intellettuale che qualifica e
impreziosisce l'iniziativa e il sapiente lavoro di Pedro. Cari saluti.
Francesco Rizzo.
2014-06-09 10:53 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>:
> Caro Pedro,
> chiedo scusa a Tutti. Mi sono fatto prendere dalle domande e
> automaticamente ho tentato di rispondere facendo delle precisazioni
> reiterate sulla parola composta tras-in-form-azione che l'ho visto
> diventare, impropriamente, trans-informazione. Comunque, non conoscevo la
> regola (due messaggi ogni settimana). Non accadrà più.
> Cordiali saluti.
> Francesco Rizzo.
>
>
> 2014-06-08 19:44 GMT+02:00 pedro marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>:
>
> Francesco, only two messages per week are allowed in FIS list---Pedro
>> BlackBerry de movistar, allí donde estés está tu oficin@
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: * Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>> *Sender: * Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>
>> *Date: *Sun, 8 Jun 2014 16:40:38 +0200
>> *To: *<rafael at capurro.de>
>> *Cc: *<fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
>> Trans-in-form-action
>>
>> Caro Rafael,
>> grazie per la precisazione che mi riporta ad uno scritto ("Economia della
>> felicità o dell'infelicità. Analisi critica della teoria delle
>> valutazioni", seconda edizione, Aracne editrice, Roma 2011) del 1977 in cui
>> per la prima volta affronto il problema entropico o meno degli equilibri o
>> dei dis-equilibri economici. Comunque, ripeto ancora che io non parlo di
>> trans-in-form-azione, bensì di tras-in-form-azione.
>> Ricambio i saluti augurali di cui ad una certa età abbiamo bisogno per
>> ritornare continuamente al nostro futuro, dato che è sempre bello
>> continuare a fare un'esperienza di condivisione empatica.
>> Francesco.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-08 16:05 GMT+02:00 Rafael Capurro <rafael at capurro.de>:
>>
>>> Caro Francesco,
>>> your trans-in-form-azione echoes my paths of thinking
>>> http://www.triple-c.at/index.php/tripleC/article/view/113/116
>>> that started in 1976 http://www.capurro.de/info.html when
>>> 'in-form-azione' was a very alien word for philosophers
>>> auguri
>>> Rafael
>>>
>>> Caro Joseph,
>>> desidero precisare che la parola composta che io uso è
>>> tras-in-form-azione, non trans-informazione. Questo per evitare almeno un
>>> equivoco.
>>> Buona domenica.
>>> Francesco.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2014-06-07 12:05 GMT+02:00 Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>> :
>>>
>>>> Caro Joseph,
>>>> vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In ogni
>>>> caso non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua legittima curiosità
>>>> mediante brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente mi sono permesso
>>>> di suggerire la lettura di tre libri. Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche
>>>> per motivare, se serve, il perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e
>>>> "neg-entropia" informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura
>>>> di "Che cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o).
>>>> Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto.
>>>> Saluti.
>>>> Francesco.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> 2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Francesco and All,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it deserves
>>>>> further critical comments, for example, on the way it relates information
>>>>> and cultural value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy, usually
>>>>> implicit but not spelled out.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept
>>>>> of information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In
>>>>> "The Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an
>>>>> “architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ), in
>>>>> which, inter alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied to
>>>>> the city, during a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty of
>>>>> Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word trans-form-in-action
>>>>> (action of giving or taking form over time that can /not/ not trans-form)
>>>>> to the city, But what matters most is to have conceived the activity of
>>>>> economic production (in general) as a process of trans-information whose
>>>>> "input" (matter, energy and information) and "output" (matter, energy and
>>>>> information) are both negentropy and entropy. So my theory of value (which
>>>>> applies not only to the economy in the strict sense) can be defined in
>>>>> simple-combination of creative energy and information and, in a more
>>>>> complex triangle of the three surpluses of negentropy: thermodynamic or
>>>>> natural, eco-biological and cultural-historical. So, the marginal utility
>>>>> theory of value of neoclassical economists is outdated and (should be)
>>>>> thrown to the winds. In fact, the "new economy" is a psycho-physical,
>>>>> semiotic-hermeneutic and biological technology sub-episteme. In summary, I
>>>>> really think a new science of economics or economics of science has been
>>>>> invented. For Pedro’s re-discussion of information encouraged me to send
>>>>> the above message (without wishing to take any undue credit for myself).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>>
>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>>>> *To:* Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
>>>>> *Cc:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es> ;
>>>>> fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
>>>>> Trans-in-form-action
>>>>>
>>>>> Caro Joseph,
>>>>> grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto
>>>>> il concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel
>>>>> tempo) In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del
>>>>> patrimonio architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in
>>>>> cui fra l'altro definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho
>>>>> impiegato la parola composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o
>>>>> prendere forma nel tempo che non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante
>>>>> lo svolgimento del corso di economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di
>>>>> Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è
>>>>> l'avere concepito l'attività di produzione economica (in senso generale)
>>>>> come un processo di tras-informazione i cui "input" (materia, energia e
>>>>> informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e informazione) sono
>>>>> neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore (che non vale
>>>>> solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo semplice-
>>>>> combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più complesso,
>>>>> triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
>>>>> eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità
>>>>> marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle
>>>>> ortiche. Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
>>>>> psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso
>>>>> davvero di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o economia
>>>>> della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di informazione sono
>>>>> stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio precedente.
>>>>> Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.
>>>>> Cordiali saluti.
>>>>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Dear Francesco,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would
>>>>>> be most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying
>>>>>> "trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information - and
>>>>>> "trans-information". The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity
>>>>>> is intended (by Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within, between
>>>>>> and beyond specific disciplines. Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was
>>>>>> made by Pedro.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the creation of
>>>>>> artistic documents or objects with some social relevance, that is, to the
>>>>>> common good. It is important to understand, in this connection, how
>>>>>> information carries such relevance.)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than English, unless there
>>>>>> is someone else in the group with Italian-language skills, I would
>>>>>> undertake to make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Joseph
>>>>>>
>>>>>> (Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)
>>>>>> VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International Society for
>>>>>> Information Science)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>>>>>> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>>>>>> *Cc:* fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM
>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
>>>>>> mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul
>>>>>> processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i tanti
>>>>>> altri:
>>>>>> -Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o
>>>>>> l'economia della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;
>>>>>> -Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della
>>>>>> conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria",
>>>>>> Aracne editrice, Roma, 2013;
>>>>>> -Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e l'intelligenza
>>>>>> della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014.
>>>>>> Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e
>>>>>> ri-significare la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non è una
>>>>>> presunzione.
>>>>>> Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.
>>>>>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <
>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dear FISers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Among the many interesting themes where the information science
>>>>>>> perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of the most
>>>>>>> singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of Cities (2013,
>>>>>>> MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed info topics. A
>>>>>>> Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962);
>>>>>>> a fluxes perspective was already attempted by Patrick Geddes (1949). In
>>>>>>> essence I have found that the idea of information flows and material flows
>>>>>>> as catching and intertwining each other, with their highly different
>>>>>>> regimes, heterogeneity and energy contents, appears as an important focus
>>>>>>> in order to better understand the globalized city. Scaling is one of the
>>>>>>> essential concepts...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the informational
>>>>>>> analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of self-similarity). What
>>>>>>> I mean is that a micro-level of communication analysis may be quite
>>>>>>> different from the meso-level, and the from macro-level. Thinking in the
>>>>>>> human case (biologically it could make sense too) the micro level is
>>>>>>> dominated by syntaxis, by a Shannonian type of analysis on messages emitted
>>>>>>> from a sourced to a receiver. The meso level contains meaning, value
>>>>>>> (fitness), purpose, and in general it implies the communication associated
>>>>>>> to the behavioral episodes and living rhythms of individuals. While in the
>>>>>>> macro level, many individuals' actions, works, products, etc. are
>>>>>>> aggregated into fluxes or flows, basically of two kinds those devoted to
>>>>>>> the material (self-production) and those carrying the info stuff devoted to
>>>>>>> communication; then it invites analysis of network science, operations
>>>>>>> research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the direct flow
>>>>>>> perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the most
>>>>>>> interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the
>>>>>>> information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will
>>>>>>> need one or another lens to better make sense of what is happening.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My impression is that a more mature info science could be quite
>>>>>>> helpful in this new field of urban development science --most people
>>>>>>> nowadays are living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it is does
>>>>>>> not match with the bottom up processes, both in communication and
>>>>>>> self-production aspects. Keeping an adequate social flow of information, a
>>>>>>> well-mixed regime of communication, is the essence of democracy. The
>>>>>>> contemporary "epidemics of loneliness" for instance may be due among other
>>>>>>> social and demographic causes to failures in bureaucratic high level
>>>>>>> planning...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> best ---Pedro
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to
>>>>>>> enliven the list--shouldn't we?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>>>>>>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>>>>>> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>>>>>>> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>>>>>>> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
>>>>>>> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>>>>>>> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 <%2B34%20976%2071%203526> (& 6818)
>>>>>>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>>>>>>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>>>>>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Fis mailing list
>>>>>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Fis mailing list
>>>>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>>>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Fis mailing listFis at listas.unizar.eshttp://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Prof.em. Dr. Rafael Capurro
>>> Hochschule der Medien (HdM), Stuttgart, Germany
>>> Capurro Fiek Foundation for Information Ethics (http://www.capurro-fiek-foundation.org)
>>> Distinguished Researcher at the African Centre of Excellence for Information Ethics (ACEIE), Department of Information Science, University of Pretoria, South Africa.
>>> President, International Center for Information Ethics (ICIE) (http://icie.zkm.de)
>>> Editor in Chief, International Review of Information Ethics (IRIE) (http://www.i-r-i-e.net)
>>> Postal Address: Redtenbacherstr. 9, 76133 Karlsruhe, Germany
>>> E-Mail: rafael at capurro.de
>>> Voice: + 49 - 721 - 98 22 9 - 22 (Fax: -21)
>>> Homepage: www.capurro.de
>>>
>>>
>>
>
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