[Fis] Information Science and the City. Trans-in-form-action

Sat Jun 7 12:05:49 CEST 2014

Caro Joseph,
vedo che il mio ultimo messaggio è stato un poco raffazzonato. In ogni caso
non penso che sia possibile soddisfare la Tua  legittima curiosità mediante
brevi scritti. Ed è per questo che inizialmente mi sono permesso di
suggerire la lettura di tre libri. Naturalmente, mi farò risentire anche
per motivare, se serve, il perché "entropia" significa dis-informazione e
"neg-entropia" informazione. Interessante è a questo proposito la lettura
di "Che cos'è la vita?" di Erwin Schrodinger (con due puntini sopra la o).
Grazie soprattutto per la Tua verve critica che apprezzo molto.
Saluti.
Francesco.

2014-06-07 8:53 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:

>  Dear Francesco and All,
>
> Here is a rough version of Francesco's comment. I think it deserves
> further critical comments, for example, on the way it relates information
> and cultural value and the co-generation of entropy and negentropy, usually
> implicit but not spelled out.
>
> Thanks for your words. In the early eighties I introduced the concept of
> information-process (the action of giving or taking form in time). In "The
> Economics of Cultural Heritage" (1983), which became "Economics of an
> “architectural-environmental heritage," in 1989 (Franco Angeli, Milan ),
> in which, inter alia, I define a negentropic cultural value. I also applied
> to the city, during a course on urban and regional economics at the Faculty
> of Architecture of Palermo, in 1984-85, the compound word
> trans-form-in-action (action of giving or taking form over time that can
> /not/ not trans-form) to the city, But what matters most is to have
> conceived the activity of economic production (in general) as a process of
> trans-information whose "input" (matter, energy and information) and
> "output" (matter, energy and information) are both negentropy and entropy.
> So my theory of value (which applies not only to the economy in the strict
> sense) can be defined in simple-combination of creative energy and
> information and, in a more complex triangle of the three surpluses of
> negentropy: thermodynamic or natural, eco-biological and
> cultural-historical. So, the marginal utility theory of value of
> neoclassical economists is outdated and (should be) thrown to the winds. In
> fact, the "new economy" is a psycho-physical, semiotic-hermeneutic and
> biological technology sub-episteme. In summary, I really think a new
> science of economics or economics of science has been invented. For Pedro’s
> re-discussion of information encouraged me to send the above message
> (without wishing to take any undue credit for myself).
>
>
> Best,
>
> Joseph
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
> *To:* Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
> *Cc:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es> ; fis at listas.unizar.es
> *Sent:* Friday, June 06, 2014 12:37 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City.
> Trans-in-form-action
>
> Caro Joseph,
> grazie per le Tue parole. All'inizio degli anni Ottanta ho introdotto il
> concetto-processo di informazione (azione del dare o prendere forma nel
> tempo) In "Economia dei beni culturali"(1983), divenuto "Economia del
> patrimonio architettonico-ambientale" nel 1989 (FrancoAngeli, Milano), in
> cui fra l'altro definisco i beni culturali neg-entropici. Inoltre ho
> impiegato la parola composta tras-in-form-azione (azione del dare o
> prendere forma nel tempo che non può non tras-formarsi) alla città durante
> lo svolgimento del corso di economia urbana e regionale nella Facoltà di
> Architettura di Palermo, nell'A.a. 1984-85. Ma quel che conta di più è
> l'avere concepito l'attività di produzione economica (in senso generale)
> come un processo di tras-informazione i cui "input" (materia, energia e
> informazione) e "output" (materia, energia e informazione) sono
> neg-entropia ed entropia. Quindi la mia teoria del valore (che non vale
> solo per l'economia in senso stretto) può definirsi- in modo semplice-
> combinazione creativa di energia e informazione e, in modo più complesso,
> triangolo dei tre surplus o neg-entropie: termodinamici o naturali,
> eco-biologici e storico-culturali. Sicché la teoria del valore-utilità
> marginale degli economisti neoclassici è sorpassata e da buttare alle
> ortiche. Difatti la "Nuova economia" è in-centrata sull'episteme
> psico-fisica,semiotico-ermeneutica e biologico-tecnologica. Insomma, penso
> davvero  di avere inventato una nuova scienza dell'economia o  economia
> della scienza. Per questo appena Pedro ha ri-parlato di informazione  sono
> stato stimolato a mandare il messaggio precedente.
> Ribadisco, però, che non intendo menare alcun vanto.
> Cordiali saluti.
> Francesco Rizzo.
>
>
>
> 2014-06-06 9:49 GMT+02:00 Joseph Brenner <joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>:
>
>>  Dear Francesco,
>>
>> Thank you for a most interesting overview of your work. What I would be
>> most interested in would be a summary of the real processes underlying
>> "trans-in-form-action" and its relation to information - and
>> "trans-information". The use of the prefix 'trans-' in transdisciplinarity
>> is intended (by Nicolescu) to refer to something that lies within, between
>> and beyond specific disciplines. Another non-trivial use of 'trans-' was
>> made by Pedro.
>>
>> (Some 14 years ago, I defined 'trans-creation' as the creation of
>> artistic documents or objects with some social relevance, that is, to the
>> common good. It is important to understand, in this connection, how
>> information carries such relevance.)
>>
>> If you prefer to answer in Italian rather than English, unless there is
>> someone else in the group with Italian-language skills, I would undertake
>> to make a rough translation (or edit a machine-translation).
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> (Joseph E. Brenner, Ph.D.)
>> VP-Inter-and Transdisciplinarity, International Society for Information
>> Science)
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> *From:* Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
>> *To:* Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>> *Cc:* fis at listas.unizar.es
>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 05, 2014 4:31 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Information Science and the City
>>
>> Caro Pedro e cari tutti,
>> mi permetto di segnalarVi che la mia "Nuova economia" è basata sul
>>  processo di tras-in-form-azione. Si cfr. a tal proposito, fra i tanti
>> altri:
>> -Rizzo F., ""Valore e valutazioni. La scienza dell'economia o l'economia
>> della scienza", FancoAngeli, Milano 1999;
>> -Rizzo F., "Nuova economia. Felicità del lavoro creativo e della
>> conservazione della natura. Infelicità della speculazione finanziaria",
>> Aracne editrice, Roma, 2013;
>> -Rizzo F., "Incontro d'amore tra il cuore della fede e l'intelligenza
>> della scienza. Un salto nel cielo", Aracne editrice, Roma 2014.
>> Ho dedicato mezzo secolo di ricerca per ri-comprendere e ri-significare
>> la scienza economica. Quello che scrivo non  è una presunzione.
>> Auguri per un'intensa ripresa e grazie.
>> Francesco Rizzo.
>>
>>
>>
>> 2014-06-05 14:25 GMT+02:00 Pedro C. Marijuan <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>:
>>
>>> Dear FISers,
>>>
>>> Among the many interesting themes where the information science
>>> perspective may provide useful orientations, cities are one of the most
>>> singular. A recent work by Michel Batty on the New Science of Cities (2013,
>>> MIT) makes a lot of connections with our oft discussed info topics. A
>>> Communication Theory of Urban Growth was developed by Richard Meier (1962);
>>> a fluxes perspective was already attempted by Patrick Geddes (1949). In
>>> essence I have found that the idea of information flows and material flows
>>> as catching and intertwining each other, with their highly different
>>> regimes, heterogeneity and energy contents, appears as an important focus
>>> in order to better understand the globalized city. Scaling is one of the
>>> essential concepts...
>>>
>>> I am not aware that scaling has been applied to the informational
>>> analysis itself (obviously it is the cornerstone of self-similarity). What
>>> I mean is that a micro-level of communication analysis may be quite
>>> different from the meso-level, and the from macro-level. Thinking in the
>>> human case (biologically it could make sense too) the micro level is
>>> dominated by syntaxis, by a Shannonian type of analysis on messages emitted
>>> from a sourced to a receiver. The meso level contains meaning, value
>>> (fitness), purpose, and in general it implies the communication associated
>>> to the behavioral episodes and living rhythms of individuals. While in the
>>> macro level, many individuals' actions, works, products, etc. are
>>> aggregated into fluxes or flows, basically of two kinds those devoted to
>>> the material (self-production) and those carrying the info stuff devoted to
>>> communication; then it invites analysis of network science, operations
>>> research, economic efficiency, etc., and of course the direct flow
>>> perspective as Bejan and Peder (2011) have attempted in one of the most
>>> interesting theories on self-constructing flow systems. Depending on the
>>> information perspective in which we observe human communication, we will
>>> need one or another lens to better make sense of what is happening.
>>>
>>> My impression is that a more mature info science could be quite helpful
>>> in this new field of urban development science --most people nowadays are
>>> living in cities. Top down planning will fail if it is does not match with
>>> the bottom up processes, both in communication and self-production aspects.
>>> Keeping an adequate social flow of information, a well-mixed regime of
>>> communication, is the essence of democracy. The contemporary "epidemics of
>>> loneliness" for instance may be due among other social and demographic
>>> causes to failures in bureaucratic high level planning...
>>>
>>> best ---Pedro
>>>
>>> PS. After the nasty computer crash months ago, we should try to enliven
>>> the list--shouldn't we?
>>>
>>> --
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>> Pedro C. Marijuán
>>> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>>> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>>> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>>> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
>>> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>>> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
>>> pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>>> http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>>> -------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Fis mailing list
>>> Fis at listas.unizar.es
>>> http://listas.unizar.es/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/fis
>>>
>>
>>  ------------------------------
>>
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>
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