[Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation
Gyorgy Darvas
darvasg at iif.hu
Thu Jul 17 14:04:16 CEST 2014
Dear Friends,
On digital/analogue information (processing) and .....
(1)One time, digital and analogue math were separated. Continuous
functions represent an analogue, infinite set of points. Making them
euqal to 0 we get equations, whose solutions provide us with important
information on these equations. These roots represent digital
information. When A. Cauchy committed his student E. Galois to elaborate
a method to find the solutions of higher power equations (concretely 5)
he meant an analogue method. Galois explored groups, a quite discrete
mathematical algebraic tool. Cauchy never accepted this combination of
analogue and digital tools. Many decades later , groups became the basic
tools to describe important properties of analogue functions of physical
states.
(2)The eigenvalues of the Schrödinger equationassign a set of digital
values to the continuous (analogue) state functions of physical objects.
These digital eigenvalues (quanta) bear the most important information
on the measurable states of physical microobjects.
(3)A more recent example. I co-organised my first symmetry conference
just 25 years ago. 4 colleagues called me and offered to organise
together a workshop at that conference on the creation of artificial
digital/analogue neural systems. They did, with great success. The
co-operation of these four persons led in a few years to the
construction of the first artificial neural organ (artificial eye) that
can convey (through nerves) light information to the seeing cluster of
the brain (although still a few x few pixels). The essence of this
method was the combination of an analogue and a digital chip to process
information provided by a (light) sensor.
One must mention these four guys (good friends). J. Hamori (Budapest), a
brain biologist, who studies the human cerebral asymmetries, and
identified the left hemisphere as a model of a digital processor, while
the right hemisphere as a model of an analogue one (since that, this
once new statement is a commonplace).M. Maroth (Budapest), a
classical-philologist, who studies antic and early-medieval Arabic
algebraic logic. T. Roska (Budapest, passed away last month) and L. O.
Chua, (Berkely, CA) engineers, developed in co-operation double core,
interacting analogue-digital chips and created the software to transmit
the sensored information through nerves to the rear domain of the brain.
Later all the four became members (two of them vice-presidents) of the
Hungarian Academy of Sci.. The 4 contributions can be found in the
"Symmetry of Structure" (1989) Abstracts volumes:
Chua: Symmetry principles in nonlinear circuits;
Hamori: Neurobiology in brain asymmetry in man;
Maroth: Two ways of thinking in Greek and Arabic philosophy;
Roska: A dual way in computing -- Learning from cerebral asymmetry.
Regards,
Gyuri
2014.07.15. 15:14 keltezéssel, Joseph Brenner írta:
> Dear John,
>
> Thank you for this interesting perspective. Regarding the origin of the
> "limited band width" of physical processes, could this have its origin in
> some regularity other than circularity? For example, the "continuous
> going
> back and forth" (the phrase is Botero's) between opposing attitudes or
> states, alternately predominantly actual and potential?
>
> All natural processes, then, have a capacity for continuous information
> bearing. The problem is then the origin of /discreteness/, not only in
> your
> countercase, which involves quantum particles, but at higher levels of
> interactions between complex entities! For me, the only solution is that
> continuity and discontinuity are properties of information which are
> not totally separate from one another.
>
> Perhaps Sri, there may be here the physical basis for the "interplay"
> between analogue and digital that you see in Bialek's book, of which I
> have
> only read the (free) introduction?
>
> Best,
>
> Joseph
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Collier" <collierj at ukzn.ac.za>
> To: <fis at listas.unizar.es>; "Pedro C. Marijuan"
> <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 7:19 AM
> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation
>
>
> Dear fis members,
>
> I don't think that granularity per se is a
> necessary basis for the application of
> information theory to analog channels. In some
> cases it might be, and I agree that studying the
> relations between analog (continuous) and digital
> (discrete) processes is likely to be both
> interesting and productive. However the bandwidth
> of an analog channel typically can be defined
> even if there is no discreteness, for example if
> the information bearing process consists of waves
> so that the information bearing capacity is
> limited by the wavelength. Virtually all physical
> processes are cyclical in some way and thus have
> a limited bandwidth. A countercase would be a
> collision between particles that carries momentum
> from one to another. I can't think offhand right
> now (I just woke up), but I suspect that even in
> such cases there is a finite amount of
> information transferred. In any case, Shannon
> discussed the bandwidth of continuous process channels. It is worth
> looking
> at.
>
> John
>
> At 10:28 PM 2014-07-14, Srinandan Dasmahapatra wrote:
>> I think I agree with Joseph Brenner here. Analogue computing is
>> linked to
>> real processes, while living beings find ways of transducing information
>> out of dynamical states. The graininess that information theories
>> rely on
>> to define measures may be directly linked to physical limits in the
>> information carriers (such as photons) or they might be limitations
>> of the
>> processing organism, extracting the sufficient "difference that makes a
>> difference". And yes, there's often a too hasty rush to view analogue
>> computing through pixellated perspectives.
>>
>> I'm not sure if this is well known to members of this list, but Bill
>> Bialek's biophysics text is a profound reflection of the interplay
>> between
>> the analogue and the digital, with selection pressure forcing the
>> sufficiency of the grainy "difference that makes a difference" towards a
>> necessity for organisms, and hence pushing sensory systems close to the
>> physical limits of information transfer.
>> Cheers,
>> Sri
>>
>>
>> -------- Original message --------
>> From: Joseph Brenner
>> Date:14/07/2014 18:12 (GMT+00:00)
>> To: Pridi Siregar ,"Pedro C. Marijuan"
>> Cc: fis at listas.unizar.es
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation
>>
>> Dear Colleagues,
>>
>> My first reaction to this suggested project is that the logic and
>> philosophy
>> of information (where I am more comfortable) would have little to
>> contribute. However, analogue computation is an area in which
>> insights from
>> some complex theories of information might be useful. Analogue
>> computation
>> has always appeared to me, perhaps incorrectly, as being closer to real
>> processes and therefore in principle better able to model their fuzzy,
>> qualitative aspects. But in some of the articles I've seen, the authors
>> seem
>> almost apologetic at not being able to claim the 'power' of the digital
>> computer . . .
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Pridi Siregar" <pridi.siregar at ibiocomputing.com>
>> To: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>> Cc: <fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 4:35 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna
>>
>>
>> > Thanks for the news Pedro. Sounds really exciting! As you might recall
>> > I'm
>> > interested in applications and I would be very keen on having a
>> > brainstorming session that would include pure researchers and
>> > application-oriented guys like me to explore technology transfer
>> > opportunities. I don't know if this could be part of some (possible)
>> > future agenda but I'm sure that business people may find it more than
>> > worthwile to attend such meetings! I'm sure Plamen would be interested
>> > too.
>> >
>> > best!
>> >
>> > Pridi
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > ----- Mail original -----
>> > De: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es>
>> > À: fis at listas.unizar.es
>> > Envoyé: Vendredi 11 Juillet 2014 14:41:42
>> > Objet: [Fis] FIS in Varna
>> >
>> > Dear FISers,
>> >
>> > The fis summer conference in Varna just took place 5-6 July --our 20
>> > years of activities were celebrated too, FIS 20th. Rather
>> unfortunately
>> > not many people attended: half dozen from Spain related to Juan
>> > Castellanos and me (from Madrid and Zaragoza); and a few parties
>> around
>> > Krassimir from Bulgaria and Ukraine. But we had a great time
>> > (discussions and exchanges, banquets, beach) and the place is really
>> > beautifull & prices quite affordable. The idea, quite possible to
>> > realize, is that every year that we do not have a plenary fis or isis
>> > conference, we arrange a small summer school in Varna.
>> >
>> > Among the exchanges this year, the retinue of "basic concepts" around
>> > information generated the most intense debate--is there any concept
>> > prior to information? Joseph's contribution was also discussed by
>> > Krassimir addressed to the Russian colleagues (in Russian). Computer
>> > related ontologies, new schemes to handle Big Data, and brain
>> > exploration through AI and EEG by a very advanced Egyptian team were
>> > quite exciting discussion topics too. For the future, we think that
>> > spinoff companies could be enticed to participate, developing new
>> > products and taking profit from some of those initiatives. In any
>> case,
>> > the interaction with brilliant ITHEA colleagues from Bulgaria, Russia,
>> > Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Egypt... is a valuable experience itself.
>> >
>> > And that's all!
>> >
>> > best wishes---Pedro
>> >
>> > --
>> > -------------------------------------------------
>> > Pedro C. Marijuán
>> > Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
>> > Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
>> > Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
>> > Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
>> > 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
>> > Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
>> > pcmarijuan.iacs at aragon.es
>> > http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/
>> > -------------------------------------------------
>> >
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>
>
> ----------
> Professor John Collier
> collierj at ukzn.ac.za
> Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041 South
> Africa
> T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031
> Http://web.ncf.ca/collier
>
>
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--
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______________________________________________________
György Darvas <http://members.iif.hu/darvasg/>
E-mail <mailto:darvasg at iif.hu> ; Skype: darvasgy; S Y M M E T R I O N
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