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<font face="Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif">Dear Friends,<br>
</font><span style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU"><br>
On
digital/analogue information (processing) and .....<o:p></o:p></span>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpFirst"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(1)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU">One
time, digital and analogue math were separated. Continuous
functions represent
an analogue, infinite set of points. Making them euqal to 0 we
get equations,
whose solutions provide us with important information on these
equations. These
roots represent digital information. When A. Cauchy committed
his student E.
Galois to elaborate a method to find the solutions of higher
power equations
(concretely 5) he meant an analogue method. Galois explored
groups, a quite
discrete mathematical algebraic tool. Cauchy never accepted this
combination of
analogue and digital tools. Many decades later , groups became
the basic tools
to describe important properties of analogue functions of
physical states.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(2)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU">The
eigenvalues of the Schrödinger equation<span
style="mso-spacerun:yes">
</span>assign a set of digital values to the continuous
(analogue) state
functions of physical objects. These digital eigenvalues
(quanta) bear the most
important information on the measurable states of physical
microobjects. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="mso-fareast-font-family:"Times New
Roman";mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">(3)<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman"">
</span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU">A
more recent example. I co-organised my first symmetry conference
just 25 years
ago. 4 colleagues called me and offered to organise together a
workshop at that
conference on the creation of artificial digital/analogue neural
systems. They
did, with great success. The co-operation of these four persons
led in a few
years to the construction of the first artificial neural organ
(artificial eye)
that can convey (through nerves) light information to the seeing
cluster of the
brain (although still a few x few pixels). The essence of this
method was the
combination of an analogue and a digital chip to process
information provided
by a (light) sensor. <br>
</span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo1"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU"><br>
One must mention these four guys (good friends). J. Hamori
(Budapest), a brain
biologist, who studies the human cerebral asymmetries, and
identified the left
hemisphere as a model of a digital processor, while the right
hemisphere as a
model of an analogue one (since that, this once new statement is
a commonplace).<span style="mso-spacerun:yes"> </span>M.
Maroth (Budapest), a
classical-philologist, who studies antic and early-medieval
Arabic algebraic
logic. T. Roska (Budapest, passed away last month) and L. O.
Chua, (Berkely,
CA) engineers, developed in co-operation double core,
interacting
analogue-digital chips and created the software to transmit the
sensored
information through nerves to the rear domain of the brain.
Later all the four
became members (two of them vice-presidents) of the Hungarian
Academy of Sci.. The
4 contributions can be found in the „Symmetry of Structure”
(1989) Abstracts volumes:
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU">Chua: Symmetry principles in nonlinear circuits;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU">Hamori: Neurobiology in brain asymmetry in man;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpMiddle"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:
HU" lang="HU">Maroth: Two ways of thinking in Greek and Arabic
philosophy;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraphCxSpLast"><span
style="mso-ansi-language:HU" lang="HU">Roska:
A dual way in computing – Learning from cerebral asymmetry.<br>
</span></p>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Gyuri<br>
<br>
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<div class="moz-cite-prefix">2014.07.15. 15:14 keltezéssel, Joseph
Brenner írta:<br>
</div>
<blockquote cite="mid:C394B4434AF24D7096DE1DAB6ECFBC8E@PCdeJoseph"
type="cite">Dear John,
<br>
<br>
Thank you for this interesting perspective. Regarding the origin
of the
<br>
"limited band width" of physical processes, could this have its
origin in
<br>
some regularity other than circularity? For example, the
"continuous going
<br>
back and forth" (the phrase is Botero's) between opposing
attitudes or
<br>
states, alternately predominantly actual and potential?
<br>
<br>
All natural processes, then, have a capacity for continuous
information
<br>
bearing. The problem is then the origin of /discreteness/, not
only in your
<br>
countercase, which involves quantum particles, but at higher
levels of
<br>
interactions between complex entities! For me, the only solution
is that
<br>
continuity and discontinuity are properties of information which
are
<br>
not totally separate from one another.
<br>
<br>
Perhaps Sri, there may be here the physical basis for the
"interplay"
<br>
between analogue and digital that you see in Bialek's book, of
which I have
<br>
only read the (free) introduction?
<br>
<br>
Best,
<br>
<br>
Joseph
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message ----- From: "John Collier"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:collierj@ukzn.ac.za"><collierj@ukzn.ac.za></a>
<br>
To: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>; "Pedro C. Marijuan"
<a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a>
<br>
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 7:19 AM
<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dear fis members,
<br>
<br>
I don't think that granularity per se is a
<br>
necessary basis for the application of
<br>
information theory to analog channels. In some
<br>
cases it might be, and I agree that studying the
<br>
relations between analog (continuous) and digital
<br>
(discrete) processes is likely to be both
<br>
interesting and productive. However the bandwidth
<br>
of an analog channel typically can be defined
<br>
even if there is no discreteness, for example if
<br>
the information bearing process consists of waves
<br>
so that the information bearing capacity is
<br>
limited by the wavelength. Virtually all physical
<br>
processes are cyclical in some way and thus have
<br>
a limited bandwidth. A countercase would be a
<br>
collision between particles that carries momentum
<br>
from one to another. I can't think offhand right
<br>
now (I just woke up), but I suspect that even in
<br>
such cases there is a finite amount of
<br>
information transferred. In any case, Shannon
<br>
discussed the bandwidth of continuous process channels. It is
worth looking
<br>
at.
<br>
<br>
John
<br>
<br>
At 10:28 PM 2014-07-14, Srinandan Dasmahapatra wrote:
<br>
<blockquote type="cite">I think I agree with Joseph Brenner here.
Analogue computing is linked to
<br>
real processes, while living beings find ways of transducing
information
<br>
out of dynamical states. The graininess that information
theories rely on
<br>
to define measures may be directly linked to physical limits in
the
<br>
information carriers (such as photons) or they might be
limitations of the
<br>
processing organism, extracting the sufficient "difference that
makes a
<br>
difference". And yes, there's often a too hasty rush to view
analogue
<br>
computing through pixellated perspectives.
<br>
<br>
I'm not sure if this is well known to members of this list, but
Bill
<br>
Bialek's biophysics text is a profound reflection of the
interplay between
<br>
the analogue and the digital, with selection pressure forcing
the
<br>
sufficiency of the grainy "difference that makes a difference"
towards a
<br>
necessity for organisms, and hence pushing sensory systems close
to the
<br>
physical limits of information transfer.
<br>
Cheers,
<br>
Sri
<br>
<br>
<br>
-------- Original message --------
<br>
From: Joseph Brenner
<br>
Date:14/07/2014 18:12 (GMT+00:00)
<br>
To: Pridi Siregar ,"Pedro C. Marijuan"
<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna. Analogue Computation
<br>
<br>
Dear Colleagues,
<br>
<br>
My first reaction to this suggested project is that the logic
and
<br>
philosophy
<br>
of information (where I am more comfortable) would have little
to
<br>
contribute. However, analogue computation is an area in which
insights from
<br>
some complex theories of information might be useful. Analogue
computation
<br>
has always appeared to me, perhaps incorrectly, as being closer
to real
<br>
processes and therefore in principle better able to model their
fuzzy,
<br>
qualitative aspects. But in some of the articles I've seen, the
authors
<br>
seem
<br>
almost apologetic at not being able to claim the 'power' of the
digital
<br>
computer . . .
<br>
<br>
Best wishes,
<br>
<br>
Joseph
<br>
<br>
<br>
----- Original Message -----
<br>
From: "Pridi Siregar" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pridi.siregar@ibiocomputing.com"><pridi.siregar@ibiocomputing.com></a>
<br>
To: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a>
<br>
Cc: <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es"><fis@listas.unizar.es></a>
<br>
Sent: Monday, July 14, 2014 4:35 PM
<br>
Subject: Re: [Fis] FIS in Varna
<br>
<br>
<br>
> Thanks for the news Pedro. Sounds really exciting! As you
might recall
<br>
> I'm
<br>
> interested in applications and I would be very keen on
having a
<br>
> brainstorming session that would include pure researchers
and
<br>
> application-oriented guys like me to explore technology
transfer
<br>
> opportunities. I don't know if this could be part of some
(possible)
<br>
> future agenda but I'm sure that business people may find it
more than
<br>
> worthwile to attend such meetings! I'm sure Plamen would be
interested
<br>
> too.
<br>
>
<br>
> best!
<br>
>
<br>
> Pridi
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
>
<br>
> ----- Mail original -----
<br>
> De: "Pedro C. Marijuan" <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es"><pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es></a>
<br>
> À: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
> Envoyé: Vendredi 11 Juillet 2014 14:41:42
<br>
> Objet: [Fis] FIS in Varna
<br>
>
<br>
> Dear FISers,
<br>
>
<br>
> The fis summer conference in Varna just took place 5-6 July
--our 20
<br>
> years of activities were celebrated too, FIS 20th. Rather
unfortunately
<br>
> not many people attended: half dozen from Spain related to
Juan
<br>
> Castellanos and me (from Madrid and Zaragoza); and a few
parties around
<br>
> Krassimir from Bulgaria and Ukraine. But we had a great
time
<br>
> (discussions and exchanges, banquets, beach) and the place
is really
<br>
> beautifull & prices quite affordable. The idea, quite
possible to
<br>
> realize, is that every year that we do not have a plenary
fis or isis
<br>
> conference, we arrange a small summer school in Varna.
<br>
>
<br>
> Among the exchanges this year, the retinue of "basic
concepts" around
<br>
> information generated the most intense debate--is there any
concept
<br>
> prior to information? Joseph's contribution was also
discussed by
<br>
> Krassimir addressed to the Russian colleagues (in Russian).
Computer
<br>
> related ontologies, new schemes to handle Big Data, and
brain
<br>
> exploration through AI and EEG by a very advanced Egyptian
team were
<br>
> quite exciting discussion topics too. For the future, we
think that
<br>
> spinoff companies could be enticed to participate,
developing new
<br>
> products and taking profit from some of those initiatives.
In any case,
<br>
> the interaction with brilliant ITHEA colleagues from
Bulgaria, Russia,
<br>
> Ukraine, Armenia, Belarus, Egypt... is a valuable
experience itself.
<br>
>
<br>
> And that's all!
<br>
>
<br>
> best wishes---Pedro
<br>
>
<br>
> --
<br>
> -------------------------------------------------
<br>
> Pedro C. Marijuán
<br>
> Grupo de Bioinformación / Bioinformation Group
<br>
> Instituto Aragonés de Ciencias de la Salud
<br>
> Centro de Investigación Biomédica de Aragón (CIBA)
<br>
> Avda. San Juan Bosco, 13, planta X
<br>
> 50009 Zaragoza, Spain
<br>
> Tfno. +34 976 71 3526 (& 6818)
<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es">pcmarijuan.iacs@aragon.es</a>
<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/">http://sites.google.com/site/pedrocmarijuan/</a>
<br>
> -------------------------------------------------
<br>
>
<br>
> _______________________________________________
<br>
> Fis mailing list
<br>
> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Fis@listas.unizar.es">Fis@listas.unizar.es</a>
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
----------
<br>
Professor John Collier
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:collierj@ukzn.ac.za">collierj@ukzn.ac.za</a>
<br>
Philosophy and Ethics, University of KwaZulu-Natal, Durban 4041
South Africa
<br>
T: +27 (31) 260 3248 / 260 2292 F: +27 (31) 260 3031
<br>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="Http://web.ncf.ca/collier">Http://web.ncf.ca/collier</a>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________
<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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<br>
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<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<div class="moz-signature">-- <br>
<p><br>
<font size="-1">Recent publications online: <br>
<a
href="http://www.springerlink.com/openurl.asp?genre=article&id=doi:10.1007/s10773-013-1781-2"
target="_blank">A few consequences of the presence of
isotopic field-charges in QED</a> <br>
<a
href="http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10773-013-1693-1"
target="_blank">Electromagnetic interaction in the presence
of isotopic field-charges</a> <br>
<a
href="http://www.springerlink.com/content/g28q43v2112721r1/"
target="_blank">Physical consequences of a new
gauge-symmetry and its associated conservation law </a><br>
<br>
<a href="http://album.reality.hu/panos/lanchid_tetejen/giga/"
target="_blank">Greetings from Budapest</a> <br>
______________________________________________________ <br>
<a href="http://members.iif.hu/darvasg/" target="_blank">György
Darvas</a> <br>
<a href="mailto:darvasg@iif.hu">E-mail</a> ; Skype: darvasgy;
<a href="http://symmetry.hu/" target="_blank">S Y M M E T R I
O N</a> , ISA on <a
href="https://www.facebook.com/symmetry.association"
target="_blank">Facebook</a> <br>
<em>Address</em>: 29 Eötvös St., Budapest, H-1067 Hungary;
Phone: 36 (1) 302-6965; <br>
Monograph: <a
href="http://books.google.hu/books?id=UYdsSrZF0mgC&dq=darvas+symmetry&printsec=frontcover&source=bn&hl=hu&ei=UKx7TP3XEpDIswaMmOSxDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&ved=0CDEQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false"
target="_blank"><em>Symmetry</em></a>; <br>
Course
of lectures on <em><a
href="http://hps.elte.hu/oktaeder/atmeneti/darvas.htm#English"
target="_blank">Symmetry</a></em>,<br>
</font><font size="-1">Course
of lectures on <a
href="http://hps.elte.hu/courses/darvas3.htm#English"
target="_blank"><em>Physical Symmetries and Conservation
Laws</em></a>,<br>
Course of lectures on <a
href="http://hps.elte.hu/oktaeder/atmeneti/darvas2.htm#English"
target="_blank"><em>Interactions in Kinetic Fields and the
Conservation of IFCS</em></a> <br>
_______________________________________________________ </font></p>
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