[Fis] Neuroinformation?

Fri Dec 5 19:53:41 CET 2014

Hi All,

Like many here, I am very interested in the notion of neuroinformation and the contrast between information as static pattern or temporal process.  I want to suggest a way to think of the static and process views of information as identical concepts.  I take the static view to be something like the existence of a physical gradient or contrast in state between proximate spaces.  The 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that all such gradients will tend to bread down (disorganize) over time.  Therefore, maintenance of static information requires a process.  This idea could apply nicely to neuroinformation.  For example, memories can fade if they are not accessed occasionally.  From this point of view, static contrasts and the processes that maintain them cannot be separated, much like pattern and process cannot be separated in the dissipative systems of Prigogine.

Regards,

Guy

Guy Hoelzer, Associate Professor
Department of Biology
University of Nevada Reno

Phone:  775-784-4860
Fax:  775-784-1302
hoelzer at unr.edu<mailto:hoelzer at unr.edu>

On Dec 4, 2014, at 6:57 AM, Krassimir Markov <markov at foibg.com<mailto:markov at foibg.com>> wrote:

Dear Bob,
I think, there is no conflict between two points of view – information may be a process and it may be a static depending of what kind of reflection it is.
For instance, we reflect the world around:
- as static - by photos, art images, sculptures, etc.;
- as dynamic - by movies, theater plays, ballet, etc.;
- and, at the end, by both types – by static text which creates dynamical imaginations in our consciousness.
Friendly regards
Krassimir

PS: This is my second post for this week. So, I say: Goodbye to the next one!

From: Bob Logan<mailto:logan at physics.utoronto.ca>
Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:54 PM
To: Joseph Brenner<mailto:joe.brenner at bluewin.ch>
Cc: fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?

Dear all - I support Joseph's remarks and would suggest that information in general is a process that unfortunately is formulated as a noun. Inspired by Bucky Fuller's I think I am a verb I suggest that "Information is a verb" It is a verb because it describes a process. Although that solves one problem we need to be able to describe a set of signs that have the potential to initiate the process of informing through interpretation. I would not suggest we create another word but recognize that the word information has many meanings and that when it is describing a process it has a verb-like quality to it and when it describes a set of sign that have the potential to be interpreted and hence become information it is acting as a noun. I would also suggest that a simple definition of the term information is not possible because its meaning is so context dependent. This is true of all words but even more so for information. For those that agree with my sentiments the above is information and for those that do not it is nonsense. My best wishes to both groups,  Bob Logan
______________________

Robert K. Logan
Prof. Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto
Chief Scientist - sLab at OCAD
http://utoronto.academia.edu/RobertKLogan
www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan<http://www.physics.utoronto.ca/Members/logan>
www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications<http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications>

On 2014-12-04, at 6:40 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote:

Dear Dr. Isiegas,

I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality.

Best wishes,

Joseph B.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert E. Ulanowicz" <ulan at umces.edu<mailto:ulan at umces.edu>>
To: "Carolina Isiegas" <cisiegas at gmail.com<mailto:cisiegas at gmail.com>>
Cc: <fis at listas.unizar.es<mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?

Dear Dr. Isiegas:

I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal
network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of
discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a
network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in
<http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF>.

Please note that this measure is different from the conventional
sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more
the "structural information" inhering in the neuronal network. John
Collier (also a FISer) calls such information "enformation" to draw
attention to its different nature.

With best wishes for success,

Bob Ulanowicz

Dear list,

   I have been reading during the last year all these interesting
exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific
backgound
(Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the
topic of neuroinformation, how information "exists" within the Central
Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in
investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory,
specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such
brain
functions (In Ted AbelÂ´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I
spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I
could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions
and
in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the
synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the
"information flow" within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex
that
in the "simple" pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for
you "Fishers" or "Fisers", how should we contemplate the micro and macro
structures of information within the neural realm? what is
Neuroinformation?

Best wishes,

--
Carolina Isiegas
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