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Hi All,
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<div class="">Like many here, I am very interested in the notion of neuroinformation and the contrast between information as static pattern or temporal process. I want to suggest a way to think of the static and process views of information as identical concepts.
I take the static view to be something like the existence of a physical gradient or contrast in state between proximate spaces. The 2nd law of thermodynamics tells us that all such gradients will tend to bread down (disorganize) over time. Therefore, maintenance
of static information requires a process. This idea could apply nicely to neuroinformation. For example, memories can fade if they are not accessed occasionally. From this point of view, static contrasts and the processes that maintain them cannot be separated,
much like pattern and process cannot be separated in the dissipative systems of Prigogine.</div>
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<div class="">Regards,</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
</div>
<div class="">Guy</div>
<div class=""><br class="">
<div apple-content-edited="true" class="">Guy Hoelzer, Associate Professor<br class="">
Department of Biology<br class="">
University of Nevada Reno<br class="">
<br class="">
Phone: 775-784-4860<br class="">
Fax: 775-784-1302<br class="">
<a href="mailto:hoelzer@unr.edu" class="">hoelzer@unr.edu</a> </div>
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<blockquote type="cite" class="">
<div class="">On Dec 4, 2014, at 6:57 AM, Krassimir Markov <<a href="mailto:markov@foibg.com" class="">markov@foibg.com</a>> wrote:</div>
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<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Dear Bob,</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">I think, there is no conflict between two points of view – information may be a process and it may be a static depending of what kind of reflection it is.</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">For instance, we reflect the world around:</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">- as static - by photos, art images, sculptures, etc.;
</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">- as dynamic - by movies, theater plays, ballet, etc.;
</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">- and, at the end, by both types – by static text which creates dynamical imaginations in our consciousness.</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Friendly regards</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">Krassimir</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class="">PS: This is my second post for this week. So, I say: Goodbye to the next one!</font></div>
<div class=""><font size="4" class=""></font> </div>
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<div style="font-color: black" class=""><b class="">From:</b> <a title="logan@physics.utoronto.ca" href="mailto:logan@physics.utoronto.ca" class="">
Bob Logan</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Sent:</b> Thursday, December 04, 2014 3:54 PM</div>
<div class=""><b class="">To:</b> <a title="joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" href="mailto:joe.brenner@bluewin.ch" class="">
Joseph Brenner</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Cc:</b> <a title="fis@listas.unizar.es" href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" class="">
fis@listas.unizar.es</a> </div>
<div class=""><b class="">Subject:</b> Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?</div>
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Dear all - I support Joseph's remarks and would suggest that information in general is a process that unfortunately is formulated as a noun. Inspired by Bucky Fuller's I think I am a verb I suggest that "Information is a verb" It is a verb because it describes
a process. Although that solves one problem we need to be able to describe a set of signs that have the potential to initiate the process of informing through interpretation. I would not suggest we create another word but recognize that the word information
has many meanings and that when it is describing a process it has a verb-like quality to it and when it describes a set of sign that have the potential to be interpreted and hence become information it is acting as a noun. I would also suggest that a simple
definition of the term information is not possible because its meaning is so context dependent. This is true of all words but even more so for information. For those that agree with my sentiments the above is information and for those that do not it is nonsense.
My best wishes to both groups, Bob Logan<br class="">
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Robert K. Logan</div>
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Emeritus - Physics - U. of Toronto </span>
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Scientist - sLab at OCAD</span><span class="Apple-style-span" style="ORPHANS: 2; WIDOWS: 2; TEXT-INDENT: 0px; -webkit-text-decorations-in-effect: none">
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<div class=""><span class="Apple-style-span" style="FONT-SIZE: 12px"><a href="http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications" class="">www.researchgate.net/profile/Robert_Logan5/publications</a></span><br class="">
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<div class="">On 2014-12-04, at 6:40 AM, Joseph Brenner wrote:</div>
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<div class="">Dear Dr. Isiegas,<br class="">
<br class="">
I will add my support to the extended concept of information that inheres in the work of Robert Ulanowicz and John Collier. I would just add that I like to call it information-as-process, to call attention to its 'structure' being dynamic, with individual neurones
involved in a cyclic (better spiral or sinusoidal) movement between states of activation and inhibition. I have ascribed an extension of logic to this form of alternating actual and potential states in complex processes at all levels of reality.<br class="">
<br class="">
Best wishes,<br class="">
<br class="">
Joseph B.<br class="">
<br class="">
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert E. Ulanowicz" <<a href="mailto:ulan@umces.edu" class="">ulan@umces.edu</a>><br class="">
To: "Carolina Isiegas" <<a href="mailto:cisiegas@gmail.com" class="">cisiegas@gmail.com</a>><br class="">
Cc: <<a href="mailto:fis@listas.unizar.es" class="">fis@listas.unizar.es</a>><br class="">
Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 2014 6:30 PM<br class="">
Subject: Re: [Fis] Neuroinformation?<br class="">
<br class="">
<br class="">
Dear Dr. Isiegas:<br class="">
<br class="">
I envision neuroinformation as the mutual information of the neuronal<br class="">
network where synaptic connections are weighted by the frequencies of<br class="">
discharge between all pairs of neurons. This is directly analogous to a<br class="">
network of trophic exchanges among an ecosystem, as illustrated in<br class="">
<<a href="http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF" class="">http://people.biology.ufl.edu/ulan/pubs/SymmOvhd.PDF</a>>.<br class="">
<br class="">
Please note that this measure is different from the conventional<br class="">
sender-channel-receiver format of communications theory. It resembles more<br class="">
the "structural information" inhering in the neuronal network. John<br class="">
Collier (also a FISer) calls such information "enformation" to draw<br class="">
attention to its different nature.<br class="">
<br class="">
With best wishes for success,<br class="">
<br class="">
Bob Ulanowicz<br class="">
<br class="">
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Dear list,<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""> I have been reading during the last year all these interesting<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">exchanges. Some of them terrific discussions! Given my scientific<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">backgound<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">(Molecular Neuroscience), I would like to hear your point of view on the<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">topic of neuroinformation, how information "exists" within the Central<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Nervous Systems. My task was experimental; I was interested in<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">investigating the molecular mechanisms underlying learning and memory,<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">specifically, the role of the cAMP-PKA-CREB signaling pathway in such<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">brain<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">functions (In Ted Abel´s Lab at the University of Pennsylvania, where I<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">spent 7 years). I generated several genetically modified mice in which I<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">could regulate the expression of this pathway in specific brain regions<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">and<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">in which I studied the effects of upregulation or downregulation at the<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">synaptic and behavioral levels. However, I am conscious that the<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">"information flow" within the mouse Nervous System is far more complex<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">that<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">in the "simple" pathway that I was studying...so, my concrete question for<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">you "Fishers" or "Fisers", how should we contemplate the micro and macro<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">structures of information within the neural realm? what is<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Neuroinformation?<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Best wishes,<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class=""><br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">--<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Carolina Isiegas<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">_______________________________________________<br class="">
</blockquote>
<blockquote type="cite" class="">Fis mailing list<br class="">
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