[Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 37
Katherine Peil
ktpeil at outlook.com
Tue Jan 13 18:28:52 CET 2026
Have the very happiest of Birthdays Francesco! May there be many more ~ your emotional wisdom helps sustatin our intellectual orbit!
Kate Kauffman
On 1/13/26, 12:07 AM, "Fis" <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> wrote: Katherine Peil Kauffman
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 35 (Francesco Rizzo)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2026 08:06:15 +0100
From: Francesco Rizzo <13francesco.rizzo at gmail.com>
To: Katherine Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com>
Cc: "fis at listas.unizar.es" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
Subject: Re: [Fis] Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 35
Message-ID:
<CAEvKwyTqk2JQrW+-5=x3SLqELVPbpBnnepXijmZm4K7K_xJSUw at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Dear all,
without emo-rationality there is neither faith nor science mediated by
conscience. At least this is the heart or essence of my New Economy of
Existence and Knowledge which adopts the theory of art-value, beauty-value
and love-value. With great respect for your thoughts, I ask you to join me
as I turn 86 today. Thank you, Pedro, for having met and known you.
Francesco
Cari tutti,
senza emo-ra-zionalit? non v'ha n? fede n? scienza inter-mediate dalla
coscienza.
Almeno questo ? il cuore o l'esseza della mia Nuova economia dell'esistenza
e della
conoscenza che adotta la teoria del valore-arte, del valore-bellezza e del
valore-amore,
Con grande rispetto del Vostro pensiero, Vi prego di unirvi a me che oggi
compio 86 anni.
Grazie Pedro per averTi incontrato e conosciuto.
Francesco
Il giorno lun 12 gen 2026 alle ore 18:42 Katherine Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com>
ha scritto:
> Dear Lazlo et al,
> I too find creative excellence in your anthropological analysis and vector
> approach to art. Well done Lazlo!
> I also heartily endorse Krasimir?s addition of binary logic to enhance
> the story, as it honors the complementarity and symmetry in the deeper
> physics, and more abstract maths concerning ?form? and ?identity?. (Enter
> Lou Kauffman?s iterative self-distinctioning as central to Triad of
> Creativity/Art.)
>
> The binary logic emphasizes the central role of emotional sentience -
> the hedonic or affective valence in living systems, what I argue to be
> the ?fundamental semantic information bit? - its evaluative logic evident
> at the cellular level, stimulate by bioelectric patterns, and central to
> what Levin calls ?basal intelligence?.
>
> With the help of AI, I have generated Krassimir?s Unit Cube, situating
> emotional sentience at or around location 101. Importantly, this situates
> the ?information? (data) as existing in the ?external? environment, akin to
> physical sensory stimulus before it has been transducing into ?perception?
> proper. (With the grace of Pedro, maybe he can ?twinkle? it into this
> post??.below)[image: ChatGPT Image Jan 12, 2026, 09_24_28 AM.jpeg]
>
> At nearly every turn in Lazlo?s paper, emotion is the key player, and the
> desire to "extend it to include emotion? will be fruitful. I agree with
> Paul about the scientistic dogma, toxicity, and competitive career building
> in The Academy, and I place primary ?authority? back within subjective
> experiences afforded by the living embodiment.
>
> To that end, Lazlo, I offer the conceptual distinction between *cognition* and
> *emotion* - two separate yet interacting streams of information that
> remain traditionally confounded. (You cite Lisa Feldman Barrett, yet she
> makes this mistake by pointing only toward the complex emotions, the
> third level of information in emotional feelings (?knowledge" in your
> model), and ignoring the first level, the deeper
> binary ?affective? evaluations (?data", in your model) - the feel good feel
> bad hedonic categories of experience).
>
>
>
> Emotion is a more ancient regulatory mechanism for adaptive behavioral
> control (at the cellular level), while cognition relies upon neural
> structures. Emotion concerns *physical **sensory stimulus out there in
> the external world (Data) - new self-relevant changes in the immediate
> environment, mismatches between mindful models and actual circumstances.* It's
> binary logic flows upward from mathematical symmetries, energy conservation
> laws, and complementary opposites in in EM and Gravitational forces - what
> John Torday calls The Logic of the Cosmos - thanks John). My point is that
> Art and Life need BOTH streams of information to function properly.
>
>
> Respectively, the dual categories *Cognition* and *Emotion* capture:
>
> 1) The *top-down* and *bottom-up* neural processing pathways; 2) the
> *fast *and *slow* brain rhythms; 3) the *syntactic* and *semantic *dimensions
> of language, and (loosely) 4), the distinct functions of *left *and
> *right *hemispheres of the prefrontal cortex; and at their deepest the
> *dual identity *structure that is simultaneously *whole* and a* part *(of
> a greater whole) - and individual and collective.
>
>
> Indeed, emotional information is biologically distinct in that it
> concerns *"the self?*, delivering evaluative feedback about the status of
> the living embodiment in its immediate environment. Its bottom-up
> evaluative, identity logic is evident in the ?self/not-self? distinctions
> of immune, genetic and epigenetic regulation, the patterns of cell
> differentiation, and the bio-electric patterning of morphogenetic
> development. It?s top-down effects are evident in the common stress
> chemistry, epigenetic methylation marking, Pavlovian learning, anticipatory
> behavior, and in placebo and nocebo effects of mind on body.
>
>
>
> My bold claim is: *No emotion, no esthetics*. No emotion, no sense of
> identity. No emotion, no morality, no ethics - no sense of value
> whatsoever. *No emotion, no art.* Emotional sentience is the biophysical
> source of what Bergson called The Elan Vitale, what Aristotle called The
> Sensitive Soul, and the physical and functional rationale for Plato?s the
> True, The Good, and The Beautiful. Descartes was wrong: Feeling predates
> thinking, the ?unconscious? body in-forms the ?conscious? mind,
> and identity is collective - ultimately concerning mathematical form and
> iterative self-distinctioning. ?I feel therefore I am? is much more
> accurate. As Damasio put it, the feeling of what is happening - to me -
> yields a ?proto-self? awareness, with pain and pleasure pushing and pulling
> us along an *optimal developmental trajectory - the evolution of our *own
> personal empowerment and creative agency. Learning ? building personal and
> social mindscapes - is Art. Niche construction - building cultural and
> technological landscapes is Art. *Life is Art. *
>
> Just a thought,
>
> Kate Kauffman
>
>
>
>
> On 1/11/26, 6:03 PM, "Fis" <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> wrote:
> Katherine Peil Kauffman
>
> Send Fis mailing list submissions to
> fis at listas.unizar.es
>
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>
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> than "Re: Contents of Fis digest..."
>
>
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Inviting Discord (Paul Suni)
> 2. Re: Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)
> (Krassimir Markov)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2026 16:26:43 -0800
> From: Paul Suni <paul.p.suni at gmail.com>
> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: [Fis] Inviting Discord
> Message-ID: <0F0F2595-A1BF-443F-A588-2D3A4BA95A02 at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> Hello FIS,
>
> I wrote a biting response to L?szl? concerning the nature of art. As a
> pro-Western intellectual underdog and anti-academic, I did not affect the
> expected collegial and pro-social tone. I said things that will no doubt
> appear absurd and jarring to many of you. I invite you to challenge me, and
> even to try to defend the merits of destroying capitalism and all that the
> West stands for. You can even try to defend the noble status of the
> academic - hard-won from the actual nobility of the time, during the 18th
> and 19th century revolutions.
>
> I would be eager to engage with you. Convince me that August Comte did not
> start an intellectual cancer, whose lethal status still goes unnoticed.
> However, I imagine that you will choose to stay straddled on your
> pro-academic ivory tower, and remain silent. I am not going to intimate
> that academic confluence is to me like watching neighbors shove people of
> the wrong social class, gender or skin-color in the ovens, and doing
> nothing, but I am tempted. So intense is my experience of academic toxicity
> and its suicidal effects on the spirit of the West - our cultural mother.
>
> Both Art and Science, liberated from academia, are my passions. Challenge
> me. Make it personal. I stick out like a sore thumb, don?t I. You may want
> to put me in my place and teach me lessons. Do that now!
>
> Cheers,
> Paul Suni
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2026 03:02:20 +0200
> From: Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com>
> To: fis <fis at listas.unizar.es>
> Subject: Re: [Fis] Art and the Cognitive (Is art a human phenomenon?)
> Message-ID:
> <CAKEQgkxQnb=
> hWNsO_4rJ+PDmBhJ73CxEi2r6rT1M13Z5VYeZDQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear L?szl?,
>
> I hope this message finds you well. I recently had the pleasure of reading
> your article "Toward a Multidimensional Definition of Art from the
> Perspective of Cognitive Sciences" (Cs?ji, 2026), and I wanted to express
> my deep appreciation for your work. I do not usually write long letters,
> but your article left a remarkably deep impression on me and genuinely
> moved my curiosity. This is why I have taken the liberty of writing to you
> at greater length than I normally would.
>
> Your three-dimensional vectorial model?creativity, communication, and
> experience?offers a genuinely refreshing and cognitively grounded approach
> to understanding art. I particularly appreciate how you avoid binary
> classifications and Eurocentric aesthetic biases, instead proposing a
> universal framework that can accommodate diverse cultural expressions. The
> case studies you present (from Nepal, Bali, Sami culture, Japan, and
> beyond) beautifully illustrate the heterogeneity of artistic phenomena
> while maintaining theoretical coherence.
>
> The concept of the "spark" as an activation threshold that moves something
> from the zero point into the space of art (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 15) is
> especially intriguing from a cognitive perspective. It resonates well with
> prototype theory (Rosch & Lloyd, 1978) and the principle of family
> resemblance, acknowledging that art lacks a single defining essence. Your
> integration of cognitive anthropology (D'Andrade, 1995; Sperber, 1996;
> Tomasello, 1999), cognitive semantics (Lakoff & Johnson, 1980), and
> neuroaesthetics (Ramachandran & Hirstein, 1999; Seeley, 2020) creates a
> truly multidisciplinary framework.
>
> *1. A Systemic Consideration: The Triadic Structure of Information
> Interaction*
>
> While reflecting on your model, I found myself considering the systemic
> nature of artistic phenomena through the lens of the General Information
> Theory (GIT) (Markov et al, 2007). In this framework, information
> interaction is fundamentally defined as a triadic structure:
>
>
>
> *Donor (source/creator) - Object (message/medium/artwork) - Receiver
> (destination/audience)*.
>
> Crucially, this theory treats information not as an external entity but as
> a purely subjective phenomenon and exists in reality only as knowledge
> (externalized mental structures) or as data (not recognized reflections in
> reality). The term "information" itself is convenient shorthand to avoid
> constantly specifying whether we refer to data or knowledge.
>
> This perspective aligns remarkably well with your cognitive approach. As
> you note, "words and artifacts call forth fragments of knowledge, emotions,
> and memories, stimulated by the actual situation, and thus, exist only in
> human minds" (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 3, referencing Fillmore's frame semantics).
> Art, from this viewpoint, is not the physical object itself but the
> cognitive processes it triggers?the externalized mental structures
> (knowledge in reality through the artwork) become recognized and
> internalized through the receiver's cognitive engagement, while remaining
> data (unrecognized reflections) for those who do not engage with them.
>
> This builds on your observation that "perceiving art also requires
> creativity and a sense of communication" (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 16) and extends
> the notion of art as agency (Gell, 1998) and distributed cognition
> (Hutchins, 1991; White, 1995). The triadic structure is not merely a
> convenient model but reflects the fundamental nature of how mental
> structures are externalized into reality (by the Donor), persist as
> knowledge or data (in the Object), and are recognized and internalized (by
> the Receiver).
>
> Your three vectors might thus be understood as the specifically *artistic*
> modalities of this cognitive transformation:
>
> - *Creativity*: the process of externalizing mental structures into
> reality in novel or refined ways
> - *Communication*: the encoding/decoding of these structures through the
> artwork as medium
> - *Experience*: the recognition and subjective internalization of these
> structures
>
> This led me to consider various configurations of the triadic system:
>
> - *(0,0,0)*: Complete absence of art?the zero point you identify; no
> information interaction occurs
> - *(0,1,1)*: Object + Receiver without original Donor (e.g., natural
> forms reinterpreted as ready-made art, as in your Case 6 with Du?an
> Palen?ar's "pregnant tree"; or ancient anonymous works where the
> creator is
> historically absent). Here, the Receiver projects mental structures onto
> what were merely unrecognized reflections in reality (data),
> transforming
> them into knowledge through recognition.
> - *(1,0,1)*: Donor + Receiver without persistent Object (ephemeral
> performances, as in your Case 2 with Kechak dance; or improvisations
> where
> the externalized structures are immediately recognized without
> persisting
> as observable reflections)
> - *(1,1,0)*: Donor + Object without Receiver (unpublished/unseen
> works?latent art, as in your Case 5 before you discovered the homeless
> artist's work; mental structures externalized into reality but
> remaining as
> data, not yet recognized by any receiver)
> - *(1,1,1)*: Full artistic system (classical case, as in your Case 4
> with Hokusai's widely recognized masterpieces; complete cycle of
> externalization-persistence-recognition)
>
> Each configuration reveals different cognitive processes and raises
> interesting questions about when and how art "exists" as an informational
> phenomenon. Your own fieldwork provides excellent examples: in Case 5,
> initially the system operated as (1,1,0) until your discovery transformed
> it into (1,1,1). The artist himself stated he "could not imagine attracting
> anyone" with his work (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 8), suggesting he didn't initially
> conceive of it within a complete communicative system?his externalized
> mental structures remained as unrecognized reflections in reality (data)
> without being transformed into knowledge by others. Similarly, in Case 1
> (Dibhi Kami and Dor Bahadur Buramagar), the art began as (1,0,1)?ephemeral
> call-and-response performance where mental structures were directly
> externalized and recognized through transient sound?before being documented
> and reaching wider audiences.
>
> The (1,0,1) configuration is particularly interesting from the
> information-theoretic perspective: it suggests that art can exist as
> *direct
> recognition and transformation of externalized mental structures* through
> transient carriers (sound waves, light, movement) without necessarily
> persisting as observable data objects.
>
> *2. Temporal Dynamics*
>
> This triadic view also introduces a temporal dimension that your vectorial
> model could potentially incorporate. As you note, "we have no evidence that
> making and enjoying art have been based on unchanging brain processes"
> (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 4), suggesting evolutionary and historical change. At the
> individual artwork level, art seems to evolve through temporal states:
>
> - *T1* (creation moment): Donor externalizing mental structures into
> reality, Object emerging as knowledge/data, Receiver absent
> - *T2* (reception moment): Donor possibly absent, Object persists (as
> knowledge or data depending on recognition), Receiver recognizing and
> internalizing
> - *T3* (oblivion): All elements return to zero?physical reflections
> decay, knowledge is forgotten
>
> Different cognitive processes may be dominant at each stage, which could
> help explain the varied brain activation patterns observed in
> neuroscientific studies of art (Chatterjee, 2011; Ishizu & Zekir, 2011).
>
> *3. The Question of Animal Art: Where is the "Spark"?*
>
> Your discussion of the "spark" as uniquely human raises a fascinating
> question that you acknowledge: "Anyone who has a dog surely recognizes that
> even animals are capable of creative problem-solving and communication that
> causes emotions in humans" (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 15). This leads me to wonder
> about the boundaries of art in the animal kingdom.
>
> Consider several intriguing cases:
>
> *3.1. Avian vocal performance*: Many songbirds (such as nightingales,
> lyrebirds, and mockingbirds) engage in elaborate vocal displays that go far
> beyond simple mating calls (Catchpole & Slater, 2008; Marler & Slabbekoorn,
> 2004). They exhibit:
>
> - *Creativity*: Individual variation, improvisation, and cultural
> transmission of song dialects
> - *Communication*: Clear signaling function, but with aesthetic
> elaboration beyond minimal effectiveness
> - *Experience*: Evidence of pleasure centers activating during song
> production (Riters, 2012)
>
> Does this constitute art, or merely elaborate signaling? The triadic
> structure exists (singer-song-listener), and all three vectors appear to be
> non-zero. From the information-theoretic perspective, do birds externalize
> and recognize mental structures in ways qualitatively similar to humans, or
> is their processing fundamentally different?
>
> *3.2. Courtship displays*: The dances of cranes, swans, and bowerbirds
> involve:
>
> - *Creativity*: Individual variation in display quality; bowerbirds even
> decorate their bowers with colored objects (Borgia, 1985; Endler et al.,
> 2010)
> - *Communication*: Clear purpose, but with aesthetic judgment by females
> who select mates based on display quality
> - *Experience*: Both performer and observer are engaged; unsuccessful
> males modify their displays, suggesting experiential learning
>
> Bowerbirds, in particular, appear to externalize mental structures (their
> aesthetic preferences) into physical arrangements (bower decorations) that
> are then evaluated by others?a remarkable parallel to human artistic
> behavior.
>
> *3.3. Cetacean songs*: Humpback whales produce complex, evolving songs that
> change over seasons and spread through populations culturally (Payne &
> Payne, 1985; Garland et al., 2011). These shows:
>
> - *Creativity*: Novel phrases appear and propagate
> - *Communication*: Function unclear (not simple mating calls)
> - *Experience*: Whales appear to attend to each other's songs
>
> The cultural transmission of whale songs suggests a degree of
> externalization and recognition of mental structures across individuals and
> time.
>
> *3.4. Elephant painting*: While controversial (some argue it's trained
> behavior), elephants in captivity spontaneously manipulate paint on canvas
> with apparent intentionality and individual styles, which you note as
> important (Cs?ji, 2026).
>
> Your criterion of the "spark" as involving metaphorical thinking (Lakoff &
> Johnson, 1980) might be the key distinction. As you note, "the ability to
> use and understand metaphor...demonstrates everyday human artistic
> cognition" (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 1). There is limited evidence for metaphorical
> cognition in great apes (Tanner & Byrne, 1996), but whether this extends to
> aesthetic domains remains unclear.
>
> >From the information-theoretic perspective, the question becomes: Can
> animals engage in the *metacognitive framing* of their externalizations as
> "artistic"? Do they possess the mental structures necessary to categorize
> certain behaviors as belonging to a special domain beyond purely functional
> communication? Your model's focus on the "spark" as a threshold suggests
> this metacognitive awareness might be the distinguishing feature.
>
> Alternatively, if we accept your vectorial model as gradient rather than
> binary, perhaps some animal behaviors occupy the low end of the artistic
> spectrum?say (0.3, 0.5, 0.4)?above zero but below the threshold we
> typically recognize as "art." This would align with your observation that
> "art as a cognitive process, does not inevitably depend on such aesthetic
> criteria (like beauty, asymmetry-seeking, etc.)" (Cs?ji, 2026, p. 14).
>
> The question becomes: Is the "spark" a uniquely human metacognitive
> capacity (the ability to frame an activity as "artistic"), or does it exist
> on a continuum where some animals achieve rudimentary forms? Your model's
> flexibility could accommodate either interpretation, but clarifying this
> boundary might strengthen the framework's universality claims while
> respecting the specifically human dimension you emphasize.
>
> *4. Mathematical Formalization and Systemic Mapping*
>
> One additional observation: your vectorial model lends itself naturally to
> mathematical formalization as a unit cube [0,1]?, which addresses a
> potential limitation in the unbounded vector representation. Each artistic
> phenomenon can be represented as a point A = (c, m, e) with bounded
> coordinates corresponding to the three dimensions.
>
> Moreover, there appears to be a natural mapping between your three vectors
> and the triadic information interaction structure:
>
> - *Creativity (c)* ? *Donor* (the source, externalizing mental
> structures into reality)
> - *Communication (m)* ? *Object* (the medium/artwork, carrying knowledge
> or remaining as data)
> - *Experience (e)* ? *Receiver* (the destination, recognizing and
> internalizing)
>
> This correspondence suggests that within the unit cube framework, we can
> model the entire human information interaction system. The bounded [0,1]
> range for each dimension captures the finite, subjective nature of
> information as it transitions between mental structures and their
> reflections in reality (Markov, 2007), avoiding the conceptual issues of
> infinite vectors. A complete artistic system would require all three
> coordinates to be non-zero: c > 0 ? m > 0 ? e > 0, formally expressing your
> insight that art emerges from the triadic interaction.
>
> This formalization would enable the application of fuzzy logic operators
> (such as t-norms) to rigorously define the "spark" threshold and measure
> artistic intensity as ?_art(A) = T(c, m, e), where T represents a
> triangular norm capturing the interdependence of the three elements.
> Different system configurations?(0,1,1), (1,0,1), (1,1,0)?can be precisely
> analyzed, and temporal dynamics A(t) can be modeled as trajectories through
> the unit cube.
>
> Such mathematical apparatus could facilitate comparative studies,
> computational modeling of artistic cognition, and more rigorous hypothesis
> testing within the cognitive neuroscience of art. I believe this direction
> could strengthen the model's applicability across disciplines while
> preserving its conceptual elegance.
>
> *Conclusion*
>
> Please understand these reflections as enthusiastic engagement with your
> work rather than criticism. Your model has already made a significant
> contribution to how we conceptualize art in cognitive sciences,
> particularly in transcending "previous Eurocentric concepts" (Cs?ji, 2026,
> p. 3) and avoiding the colonial hierarchies that have long plagued art
> theory.
>
> The connections to GIT (particularly the understanding of information as
> subjective, existing as externalized mental structures (knowledge) or data
> depending on recognition), the question of animal aesthetics, and the
> potential for mathematical formalization are perhaps avenues for future
> exploration that could further strengthen your already robust framework. I
> would be happy to share more details about the GIT, the mathematical
> formalization, or the mental structures, which are the subject of an
> extensive article currently in preparation?if they might be useful for your
> continued research.
>
> Thank you for this important work. It bridges anthropology, cognitive
> science, and art theory in a way that genuinely advances our understanding
> while respecting cultural diversity.
>
> With respect,
>
> Krassimir
>
>
>
> *References*
>
> Beatty, A. (2019). *Emotional worlds: Beyond an anthropology of emotion*.
> Cambridge University Press.
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> Subject: Digest Footer
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> INFORMACI?N SOBRE PROTECCI?N DE DATOS DE CAR?CTER PERSONAL
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End of Fis Digest, Vol 129, Issue 37
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