[Fis] Emotional Contagion? -The Irreality of materialism
Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
goernitz at em.uni-frankfurt.de
Wed Mar 12 15:33:54 CET 2025
Dear all,
Unfortunately, I have had too many other tasks so far to follow the
interesting discussion more than partially.
The last question, however, is probably relatively easy to answer from
a physical point of view, albeit somewhat differently than the earlier
naturalistic philosophy would have us believe.
To do that, I unfortunately have to present some concepts from modern physics.
Matter can be defined relatively easily in physical terms. It is
everything that has a rest mass, that is, that can remain in a certain
area of space for a certain period of time. In the past, this was
called: “Matter is inert”.
Since Einstein's E=mc^2, however, we also know that the distinction
between matter and a mere property is by no means fundamental. This
formula states that one of the properties of matter, namely motion or,
in physical terms, kinetic energy, can be converted into new matter.
Since then, in addition to matter, energy has also been regarded as a reality.
There are three fundamental quantum interactions: the weak, the
electromagnetic and the strong. For each of these interactions, there
is a charge that is the source of the force field.
As early as the end of the 19th century, physicists had recognized
that a charge is the source of rest mass. The charges can – at least
as long as physics is described with the model of Minkowski space –
neither be created nor destroyed.
Therefore, there are three stable elementary particles.
The weak charge leads to the neutrino. If an electric charge is added,
the electron results, and if a strong charge is added, the proton
results. All other elementary particles are unstable and decay in a
shorter or even shorter time – e.g. the now famous Higgs particle in a
millionth part of a quadrillionth of a second, 10^(–22) sec – into
these three types of particles plus the massless photons.
Information is said to be when living beings can absorb properties of
material or energetic structures and produce actions with them.
Since quantum theory has shown that the distinction between matter and
its properties is by no means as fundamental as we use it in everyday
language, it makes sense to look for a common basis for both.
The mathematical structure of quantum theory provides such a basis
without major difficulties.
What is important about this theory in this context is that the
composition, i.e. an interaction, of simple structures to more complex
structures to completely new structures with new properties, is
achieved with the tensor product structure of the state spaces.
If, according to quantum theory, a whole is more than the sum of its
parts, i.e. if a product structure exists, then the simplest quantum
structures are those that do not have an infinite-dimensional state
space, such as quantum particles or quantum fields.
The simplest quantum structures in mathematical terms have a merely
two-dimensional state space; they are defined as AQIs, as abstract –
and thus still meaning-free – and absolute, i.e. cosmically extended –
quantum bits.
How such AQIs in Minkowski space can be used to generate matter and
energy, i.e. quantum particles with and without rest mass, are
mathematical tasks that have long been solved.
So on the one hand, we have a structure from which matter is built. On
the other hand, the quantum bit is an excellent template for the
information that is thought in the brain in the everyday sense as
information or as thoughts.
Because matter is a structure of quantum information, it can also have
properties that may be understood as structures of quantum bits.
It then becomes understandable that in the case of highly unstable
structures, namely living beings, not only brute forces but also mere
information can cause real action.
I am aware that such scientific results can cause problems for many
worldview presuppositions. However, I think that they are suitable for
relativizing some contradictions.
Localized structures, for example everything that can act as memory,
requires rest mass as a carrier for physical reasons.
In the case of life, information is transmitted exclusively by
photons. This is trivial in the case of seeing, but it also applies to
hearing, touching, tasting and smelling. All these perceptions are
electromagnetic interactions.
The psyche is a reality that can affect the brain matter for
scientific reasons – just as the brain can affect the psyche.
In some cases, namely with emotions, the inseparable connection
between the mental and the physical cannot be ignored.
Unfortunately, a detailed summary of all these theories,
considerations and calculations has so far only been published in
German: “Quantentheorie verstehen”, 2nd edition, Hanser Verlag,
Munich, 2024.
I am currently looking for a publisher for an English version.
Thank you for the inspiring contributions so far and all the best for everyone
warmly
Thomas
Dear all,
Leider hatte ich bisher zu viel andere Aufgaben, so dass ich der
interessanten Diskussion nur partiell folgen konnte.
Die letzte Fragestellung allerdings ist wahrscheinlich aus
physikalischer Sicht relativ leicht zu beantworten, wenn auch etwas
anders als die frühere naturalistische Philosophie glauben machen
wollte.
Dazu muss ich leider einige Ausführungen über die moderne Physik vorstellen.
Materie kann physikalisch relativ einfach definiert werden. Es ist
alles, was eine Ruhemasse besitzt, was also in einem gewissen
Raumbereich für eine gewisse Zeitspanne verbleiben kann. Früher nannte
man das: „Materie ist träge“.
Seit Einsteins E=mc^2 weiß man allerdings auch, dass die
Unterscheidung zwischen Materie und einer bloßen Eigenschaft
keineswegs grundsätzlich ist. Diese Formel besagt, dass man eine der
Eigenschaften von Materie, nämlich die Bewegung oder physikalisch: die
kinetische Energie, in neue Materie verwandeln kann.
Neben der Materie wird seitdem auch die Energie als Realität angesehen.
Es gibt drei fundamentale quantische Wechselwirkungen: die schwache
die elektromagnetische und die starke. Für jede dieser
Wechselwirkungen gibt es eine Ladung, welche die Quelle des Kraftfeld
es ist.
Schon am Ende des 19. Jahrhunderts hatten die Physiker erkannt, dass
eine Ladung die Quelle von Ruhemasse ist. Die Ladungen können –
zumindest solange man die Physik mit dem Modell des Minkowski-Raumes
beschreibt – weder erzeugt noch vernichtet werden.
Daher gibt es drei stabile Elementarteilchen.
Die schwache Ladung führt zum Neutrino. Kommt dazu noch eine
elektrische Ladung, so ergibt sich das Elektron, und wird noch eine
starke Ladung hinzugefügt, so ergibt sich das Proton. Alle anderen
Elementarteilchen sind instabil und zerfallen in kürzerer oder noch
kürzerer Zeit – z.B. das berühmt gewordene Higgs Teilchen im
Millionstel Teil einer Billiardstel Sekunde, 10^(- 22) sec – in diese
drei Teilchensorten plus die masselosen Photonen.
Als Information wird bezeichnet, wenn von Lebewesen Eigenschaften von
materiellen oder energetischen Strukturen aufgenommen werden können
und an und mit diesen Wirkungen erzeugen.
Da die Quantentheorie gezeigt hat, dass die Unterscheidung zwischen
Materie und deren Eigenschaften keineswegs so grundsätzlich ist, wie
wir es in der Alltagssprache verwenden, liegt es nahe, nach einer
gemeinsamen Grundlage für beides zu suchen.
Solche Grundlage liefert ohne größere Schwierigkeiten die
mathematische Struktur der Quantentheorie.
An dieser Theorie ist diesem Zusammenhang wichtig, das mit der
Tensor-Produktstruktur der Zustandsräume die Zusammensetzung, also
eine Wechselwirkung, von einfachen Strukturen zu komplexeren
Strukturen zu völlig neuen Struktur mit neuen Eigenschaften führt.
Wenn also gemäß Quantentheorie ein Ganzes mehr ist als die Summe
seiner Teile, wenn also eine Produktstruktur vorhanden ist, dann sind
die einfachsten Quantenstrukturen solche, die keinen
unendlichdimensionalen Zustandsraum wie zum Beispiel Quantenteilchen
oder Quantenfelder haben.
Die aus mathematischen Gründen einfachsten Quantenstrukturen haben
einen lediglich zweidimensionalen Zustandsraum, sie werden als AQIs,
als abstrakte – somit noch bedeutungsfreie – und absolute, also
kosmisch ausgedehnte - Quanten-Bits definiert.
Wie aus solchen AQIs im Minkowski-Raum die Materie und Energie, also
Quantenteilchen mit und ohne Ruhmasse, erzeugt werden können, das sind
seit langem gelöste mathematische Aufgaben.
Wir haben also einerseits eine Struktur, aus der die Materie aufgebaut
ist. Zum anderen ist das Quantenbit eine exzellente Vorlage für die
Information, die im Alltagssinne als Information oder auch als
Gedanken im Gehirn gedacht wird.
Weil Materie eine Struktur aus Quanteninformation ist, kann sie also
auch Eigenschaften haben, die als Strukturen aus Quantenbits
verstanden werden dürfen.
Es wird dann verstehbar, dass an höchst instabilen Strukturen, nämlich
Lebewesen, nicht nur rohe Kräfte, sondern auch bloße Information reale
Wirkungen hervorrufen kann.
Es ist mir klar, dass solche naturwissenschaftlichen Resultate vielen
weltanschaulichen Vorannahmen Probleme bereiten können. Ich denke
aber, dass sie geeignet sind, manche Gegensätzlichkeiten zu
relativieren.
Lokalisierte Strukturen, zum Beispiel alles, was als Gedächtnis wirken
kann, benötigt aus physikalischen Gründen ein Ruhemasse als Träger.
Übermittelte Information beim Leben geschieht ausschließlich durch
Photonen. Das ist beim Sehen trivial, trifft aber genauso auf Hören,
Tasten, Schmecken und Riechen zu. Alle diese Wahrnehmungen sind
elektromagnetische Wechselwirkung.
Die Psyche ist eine Realität, die aus naturwissenschaftlichen Gründen
auf die Materie des Gehirns einwirken kann – ebenso wie das Gehirn auf
die Psyche.
In manchen Fällen, nämlich bei den Emotionen, kann die unlösbare
Verbindung zwischen Geistigem und Körperlichem nicht ignoriert werden.
Eine ausführliche Zusammenfassung aller dieser Theorien, Überlegungen
und Rechnungen sind bisher gesammelt leider erst auf Deutsch
publiziert: „Quantentheorie verstehen“, 2, Ed., Hanser Verlag, München
2024.
Gegenwärtig suche ich einen Verlag für eine englische Version.
Vielen Dank für die bisherigen anregenden Beiträge
und alles Gute für alle
herzlich
Thomas
Quoting Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org>:
> Dear Materialists,
>
> Some time ago in my distant past while teaching philosophy and logic
> in Africa at the University of Ibadan, John Curran and I held weekly
> meetings to discuss the foundations of physics. John's central
> question was "What is matter?" I took the role of logician and he
> the physical chemist. We had a great time of it. But never a
> definite answer. I also held weekly meetings with a linguist where I
> taught her Montague grammar. And weekly meetings with Tom Tobias a
> neuroscientist on the nature of intention and its realization in the
> brain (of monkeys and humans). Still no definite answers but
> certainly not crude materialism.
>
> Matter may just be generated by possibility spaces, whether or not
> an observer.
>
> Stu Kaufman and I have some ideas on the lack of definite phase
> spaces and its relation to information. There is a lot to explore
> there and that may have implications for the of physics and the
> nature of matter.
>
> Possibilities make up more of reality than existing matter.
>
> -Eric
>
> On 3/12/25 12:26 PM, Gordana Dodig Crnkovic wrote:
>>
>> **
>>
>> **
>>
>> *Dear Dualists/Platonists/Spiritualists/Immaterialists,***
>>
>> **
>>
>> At the very bottom of all the mentioned phenomena lies matter.
>> Yet, at the bottom of matter itself—when you open those boxes of
>> elementary particles, each containing yet more boxes of more
>> elementary particles, and so forth—at the very bottom lies
>> nothingness (for us).
>> Thus, the opposition between materiality and immateriality is less
>> definitive than it might seem.
>>
>> Crucially, everything depends on the "observer" (actor):
>> possibilities (potential information), quantum mechanics,
>> consciousness, including “soul” in its various disguises. For
>> Aristotle “soul” was synonymous with life which is a very
>> reasonable view.
>>
>> *Without “materiality” there is no “reality”*for an
>> observer/actor/agent in the world.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Gordana
>>
>> My second message this week.
>>
>> *From: *Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org>
>> *Organisation: *OARF.org
>> *Date: *Wednesday, 12 March 2025 at 11:58
>> *To: *Peter Erdi <Peter.Erdi at kzoo.edu>, Gordana CHALMERS
>> <gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se>, Katherine Peil
>> <ktpeil at outlook.com>, Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>,
>> "fis at listas.unizar.es" <fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion? -The Irreality of materialism
>>
>> Dear Materialists,
>>
>>
>> Reality of possibilities far exceeds material reality
>>
>> * There are more possibilities in most situations than there is
>> space in the universe to contain them,
>> * Possibilities are real.
>> * Therefore, not all reality is physical or in physical space time.
>> * In quantum mechanics there are more possibilities than space in
>> the universe to contain them.
>> * Therefore, there must be one or more extra dimensions to contain them.
>> * The consciousness and cloning problem shows the consciousness must
>> be in another dimension beyond our four dimensional space time
>> * The soul if it exists may be partly in our four dimensional
>> space-time and partly in other dimensions of reality.
>> * Materialism is just one aspect of reality.
>> * Reality is not just material it also contains the immaterial which
>> by far exceeds the material.
>>
>> At least those are my thoughts this morning on a rainy day.
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>> On 3/11/25 8:35 PM, Peter Erdi wrote:
>>
>> I am supporting Gordana's arguments and suggest this well-cited paper
>>
>>
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://psu-psychology.github.io/psy-511-scan-fdns-2018/lectures/pdf/The_neural_bases_of_emotion_re.pdf__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U9Czzt1x3euX6nKUqjyhUSww1lFo1B2wOyUhAmLjiDhWoezR3qmHkeNyM6qCMrHGgQC85OVLNYj-_QsdRKXdAq8$
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/psu-psychology.github.io/psy-511-scan-fdns-2018/lectures/pdf/The_neural_bases_of_emotion_re.pdf__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!X8l0cGXYnCDoWwpQdAKdeXofWqb9cy_mWyKiqDJK2ExjYcnj70EhtVRKY6IcHZLG6A96uAXbqawoFIm68LZD_HH9$>
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Peter
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> *From:* Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>
>> <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Gordana Dodig
>> Crnkovic <gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se>
>> <mailto:gordana.dodig-crnkovic at chalmers.se>
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 11, 2025 1:41 PM
>> *To:* Eric Werner <eric.werner at oarf.org>
>> <mailto:eric.werner at oarf.org>; Katherine Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com>
>> <mailto:ktpeil at outlook.com>; Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com>
>> <mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>; fis at listas.unizar.es
>> <fis at listas.unizar.es> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> *Subject:* Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion?
>>
>> Dear Eric, Kate, Howard, and All,
>>
>> Being a physicist, and reading recent discussions, I would like to
>> argue that there is no such thing as immaterial emotions.
>>
>> At the core, emotions are material phenomena.
>>
>> Likewise, /relations/ are fundamentally material. There is no
>> information without physical implementation, as Landauer famously
>> argued.
>>
>> Below are my five arguments on embodyment of emotional contagion.
>>
>> *1. Emotional Contagion is a Biological Process*
>>
>> Emotional contagion occurs through bodily interactions—facial
>> expressions, gestures, tone of voice, posture, and even subtle
>> physiological signals (heart rate, breathing patterns). When one
>> person smiles, it activates mirror neurons in the observer’s
>> brain, prompting similar facial muscles to contract, causing
>> measurable physical changes and subsequent shifts in emotional state.
>>
>> *2. Emotional Contagion is Chemically Mediated*
>>
>> Emotional states are directly connected to biochemical substances
>> like oxytocin, cortisol, dopamine, and serotonin. When emotional
>> contagion happens, it does so through these material biochemical
>> mediators.
>>
>> *3. Emotional Contagion Based on Embodiment of Emotion*
>>
>> Emotions are not "floating" entities—they are communicated via
>> bodily presence. The presence of a physical body expressing
>> emotion is essential for contagion. Without physical embodiment
>> (special facial expressions, sound, rhythm, smell, touch, posture,
>> movements), emotional contagion does not occur. Emotions
>> transmitted through screens (video calls) are weaker compared to
>> face-to-face interactions precisely because physical embodiment.
>>
>> *4. Manipulability of Emotional Contagion*
>>
>> Emotional contagion can be modified or dampened pharmacologically
>> (e.g., through anxiety-reducing drugs). If emotions were
>> immaterial, medications wouldn't alter emotional responses.
>> Beta-blockers reduce physical symptoms of anxiety (heartbeat,
>> shaking), weakening emotional contagion (e.g., stage fright
>> contagion). Antidepressants directly alter emotional contagion by
>> stabilizing neurotransmitters.
>>
>> *5. Neuroscientific Evidence of Embodied Resonance*
>>
>> Neuroimaging clearly demonstrates activation of specific physical
>> brain areas (mirror neuron systems, limbic system, amygdala)
>> during emotional reactions. This direct neural activity is
>> material. Seeing someone in pain activates similar pain circuits
>> in the observer's brain—physically embodying the emotion in neural
>> tissue.
>>
>> **
>>
>> *How this counters the immaterial perspective?*
>>
>> Those who argue emotions are "immaterial" claim emotions are
>> disconnected from the body. However, emotional contagion’s
>> dependence on observable, biological, chemical, and neurological
>> mechanisms refute this clearly. If emotions were immaterial,
>> contagion wouldn’t require physical presence with related
>> physiological processes involving chemical, or neuronal pathways.
>>
>> All the best,
>>
>> Gordana
>>
>> PS
>>
>> My arguments are the result of a long discussion with GPT-4.5,
>> which produced 20 pages of text. These were the prompts I used:
>>
>> 1. Can you please explain emotional contagion to me?
>> 2. Do you see a connection to the resonance phenomena in physics?*
>> 3. What are the main differences between physical resonance and
>> emotional contagion?
>> (At this point, GPT-4.5 began to explain the view that
>> emotions, like consciousness, are subjective and therefore
>> immaterial, while physical resonance is a material phenomenon.
>> I argued that it confused "subjective" with "immaterial."
>> Subjective experience is necessarily embodied and thus has a
>> material substrate. GPT-4.5 accepted my arguments.)
>> 4. Can you summarize this discussion?
>>
>> Finally, I edited the summary, shortening it.
>>
>> I wrote this mail and asked GPT-4.5 to check my English.
>>
>> What was my contribution?
>> A physicist's view on emotional contagion.
>>
>> * Resonance occurs when an external force or /driving frequency
>> matches the natural frequency of a system/, causing the system to
>> oscillate with greatly increased amplitude.
>>
>> *From: *Fis <fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es>
>> <mailto:fis-bounces at listas.unizar.es> on behalf of Eric Werner
>> <eric.werner at oarf.org> <mailto:eric.werner at oarf.org>
>> *Organisation: *OARF.org
>> *Date: *Tuesday, 11 March 2025 at 16:24
>> *To: *Howard Bloom <howlbloom at aol.com> <mailto:howlbloom at aol.com>,
>> "fis at listas.unizar.es" <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>
>> <fis at listas.unizar.es> <mailto:fis at listas.unizar.es>, Katherine
>> Peil <ktpeil at outlook.com> <mailto:ktpeil at outlook.com>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Fis] Emotional Contagion?
>>
>> Dear Kate, Howard and All,
>>
>> I have had highs in concerts and deep experiences with the
>> Aborigines in the heart of Australia. These experiences seem to
>> have little to do with each other.
>>
>> The insight given to me by my experience in Australia evoked the
>> thought "They are crazy over there". Where "over there" was
>> European and American industrialized societies, their wrong path
>> and lack of genuine meaning.
>>
>> The insight given to me while blowing up balloons backstage at a
>> Rolling Stones concert was, well, seeing Mick Jagger from the
>> back while he elicited the highs in his frontal audience. (My
>> girlfriend and I didn't have tickets and tried to get in and
>> lucked out being asked if we wanted to help backstage.) So I, the
>> Ph.D. -logician-philosopher-computer AI scientist-developmental
>> biologist-cancer theorist-(back at you Howard😉), worked for a
>> time for Mick Jagger!
>>
>> What is the point?: I learned more from my interaction with a
>> 50,000 year old mind in Australia than from all the science and
>> even Mick Jagger! It was emotion but it was more. Certainly not
>> material.
>>
>> As for the Beethoven sequence (of creating, encoding, interpreting
>> and executing the encoding, hearing the execution, encoding and
>> experiencing}, has interesting relations to embryonic development.
>> Such transformations are at the heart of development and
>> communication.
>>
>> -Eric
>>
>> On 3/11/25 5:48 AM, Howard Bloom wrote:
>>
>> kate, your question about emotional contagion and what we can
>> call "the cloud effect" is a good one.
>>
>> about this statement, with which i deeply agree:
>>
>> science is remiss if it fails to interrogate the nature
>> and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities
>> for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences
>>
>> i'm an atheist. when science first grabbed hold of my soul
>> when i was ten years old, its aspiration to me seemed to be
>> omniscience.
>>
>> spiritual experiences are real. they may not be
>> manifestations of god, especially to folks like me to whom
>> there is no god. so what the hell are they? where do they
>> come from? how did they evolve? what do they mean? what do
>> they tell us about the nature of the cosmos that has birthed them?
>>
>> in my fieldwork in mass behavior, working with people like
>> michael jackson and prince for 20 years, i saw collective
>> ecstasies, what emil durkheim called "collective
>> effervescence," ecstatic experiences at work in audiences all
>> over north america.
>>
>> in fact, one of the jobs of my entertainers was to reliably
>> evoke these transcendent experiences. and in building the
>> careers of people like Prince, it was my job to help deliver
>> these ecstasies. they are real.
>>
>> if science can't address the question of these experiences, it
>> abandons the aspiration to omniscience. and it's not science.
>>
>> with warmth and oomph--howard
>>
>> On Monday, March 10, 2025 at 07:49:34 PM EDT, Katherine Peil
>> _<ktpeil at outlook.com> <mailto:ktpeil at outlook.com>_ wrote:
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> The discussion about “nothing" or “something" being exchanged
>> between speakers and listeners prompts this question: What
>> about the phenomenon of "emotional contagion”? Do Mike Levin’s
>> revelation about bioelectricity bear upon the concept
>> of “subtle energy”?
>>
>> Also, science is remiss if it fails to interrogate the nature
>> and power of “faith”, given our embodied capacities
>> for anomalous or “spiritual" experiences. Pre-emptive
>> pejoratives are not good science, but they abound.
>>
>> Kate Kauffman
>>
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>> --
>> /Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
>> Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
>>
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>> /Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
>> Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U9Czzt1x3euX6nKUqjyhUSww1lFo1B2wOyUhAmLjiDhWoezR3qmHkeNyM6qCMrHGgQC85OVLNYj-_QsdxSJWoAE$ <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Qpq9pR0oB2_jaAWNg2L_R7UCvTWySkxmXXpPS8Q9htI65zoWGhJwHibzSgB9P9W3DsVt3lCxPq9l-r5N3Zidhpa-E4MYun93$>
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>> INFORMACIÓN SOBRE PROTECCIÓN DE DATOS DE CARÁCTER PERSONAL
>>
>> Ud. recibe este correo por pertenecer a una lista de correo
>> gestionada por la Universidad de Zaragoza.
>> Puede encontrar toda la información sobre como tratamos sus datos
>> en el siguiente
>> enlace:https://sicuz.unizar.es/informacion-sobre-proteccion-de-datos-de-caracter-personal-en-listas Recuerde que si está suscrito a una lista voluntaria Ud. puede darse de baja desde la propia aplicación en el momento en que lo
>> desee.
>> http://listas.unizar.es ----------
> --
> /Dr. Eric Werner, FLS
> Oxford Advanced Research Foundation
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://oarf.org__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!U9Czzt1x3euX6nKUqjyhUSww1lFo1B2wOyUhAmLjiDhWoezR3qmHkeNyM6qCMrHGgQC85OVLNYj-_QsdxSJWoAE$
> /
Prof. Dr. Thomas Görnitz
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Fachbereich Physik
J. W. Goethe-Universität Frankfurt/Main
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