[Fis] Biologic - at the interface between biology, topology, logic and cybernetics (by Lou Kauffman)

Fri Jan 10 08:09:43 CET 2025

Dear Krassimir,
Quantum information is not a semantic approach to information in the broad sense.
Any approach to quantitative information uses some context. The quantum context is of interest to think about as you know. Particularly since quantum processes are evolutions of probability distributions.
And the physicists imagine that their theory is complete. From a semantic (or as I said corporeal) view it is far from complete. This should give rise to an interesting discussion across boundaries.

There is a deep problem in this discussion group about dealing with information because some persons will dismiss any given quantitative measure as ’not information at all’ and so in my opinion throw the baby out with the bathwater.
I agree that the word information should be used contextually and semiotically and with regard to full context and with regard to the intepretants in the network.
That level of information cannot be given a simple formal syntactical definition. This must be accepted. Otherwise you will go around in circles forever. If someone comes along and says 
’This field defines information in such and such a way.’ Then it is worthwhile finding out what use they make of that. You will know beforehand that it will have its limitations because any DEFINED notion of information will have 
some limitations to the context in which it is defined. The only way forward that I can see is to understand this and have an open discussion on all the wonderful possibilities that one might find for the idea of information.
Best,
Lou
P.S. You say 

"Usually, when I ask a "simple question", I know the answer that I want to reach the audience, 
but I want to overcome the psychological resistance to hearing something different 
and sometimes not quite pleasant against the background of enormous efforts and work.”

So you do not actually ask questions. 
You are not interested in our possible answers. 
These are often called rhetorical questions.
You want to respond with your answer to the question. 
Fine. 
We know that now.
It is very good that you know the answers beforehand.

> On Jan 9, 2025, at 8:30 AM, Krassimir Markov <itheaiss at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Dear Colleagues,
> 
> Thank you very much for the answers and recommendations, especially to look at Wikipedia!
> 
> But my goal was to follow the advice from Carl's parable "to empty the cup"!
> 
>  
> Dear Lou,
> 
> I treat your answer and the efforts you made with deep respect and admiration. I will note that I have already read your articles and understood everything. It is truly impressive work!
> 
>  
> Usually, when I ask a "simple question", I know the answer that I want to reach the audience, but I want to overcome the psychological resistance to hearing something different and sometimes not quite pleasant against the background of enormous efforts and work.
> 
> Here is this answer, transmitted as a dialogue with Microsoft Copilot.
> 
>  
> ***
> 
> Me:
> 
> What is "quantum information"?
> 
> Copilot:
> 
> Quantum information is a field at the intersection of quantum physics and information theory. In classical information theory, the basic unit of information is the bit, which can be either 0 or 1. However, in quantum information theory, the basic unit of information is the qubit (quantum bit), which can exist in a superposition of states. This means a qubit can be both 0 and 1 at the same time, thanks to the principles of quantum mechanics.
> 
> Quantum information leverages the unique properties of quantum systems, such as superposition, entanglement, and quantum interference, to perform tasks that would be difficult or impossible for classical systems. This has exciting applications in quantum computing, quantum cryptography, and quantum communication.
> 
> Me:
> 
> Is this data about the state of the qubit? That is, the answer to the question "what is the state of the qubit?"
> 
> Copilot:
> 
> Exactly, you got it! Quantum information indeed involves data about the state of a qubit. The state of a qubit can be represented as a combination of 0 and 1, thanks to the phenomenon of superposition. When we talk about "quantum information," we're referring to the information that describes this state.
> 
> For instance, if we measure a qubit, we might get a 0 or a 1, but until we measure it, the qubit exists in a superposition of both states. The exact information about its state before measurement is what constitutes quantum information.
> 
> Me:
> 
> So, does this mean that "quantum information", like "bit information", is just data about physical states and does not apply to meaningful information, right?
> 
> Copilot:
> 
> Yes, both classical bits and quantum bits primarily represent the state of a physical system. In classical information theory, a bit (0 or 1) represents a physical state, such as a low or high voltage in a circuit. Similarly, in quantum information theory, a qubit represents the state of a quantum system, like the spin of an electron or the polarization of a photon.
> 
> However, the meaningfulness of the information often depends on how these states are interpreted and used. For example:
> 
> In classical computing, strings of bits (like 0110) can encode text, numbers, images, and any data that we want to process.
> 
> In quantum computing, strings of qubits can encode information that can be used to perform complex calculations, factor large numbers, or simulate quantum systems.
> 
> So, while bits and qubits represent physical states, the interpretation and application of these states give rise to meaningful information. It's the context and usage that provide the value and meaning to the data they represent.
> 
> ***
> 
> In other words, we are witnessing a revival of the Shannon approach today.
> 
> But „so called information theory developed by Shannon is not a theory of information at all, but a theory of communication. Shannon never defined the concept of information in his great study of communication, which does not tell us anything about the structural characteristics or properties of information and even its quantitative characteristic in the form of entropy is problematic” (Marcin J. Schroeder. Proceedings 2017, 1, 221; doi:10.3390/IS4SI-2017-04043. https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mdpi.com/journal/proceedings__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!T1VQB-9qyOvwdk5ZBxUQWUw2QFPQniZv6E-KLTu2mfkwvJ-onglMYZ2-NpjU2ywh3rwOMP9puocvfV5C$  <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.mdpi.com/journal/proceedings__;!!D9dNQwwGXtA!Wl80BIWIl6zIaxHniXps7Q4EkDtQgZ_UyYafU1u9CgQMKRDxf0d696ULbcVnephoOiRt_85CgRG0iDDJXCU$>).
> 
> We could conclude the same about the "quantum information theory", i.e. it "is not a theory of information at all".
> 
> With respect,
> 
> Krassimir
> 
> 
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